News Star Trek: The Motion Picture Director's Cut is being restored in 4K, launching first on Paramount+

[fireproof78]

Sure, but it doesn't make their position right, or even worth giving the same level of consideration as a rational position.

Who said he was right? I am someone who believes strongly in understanding a person's emotional point of view. Whether he is right nor, as @cooleddie74 stated, it was his property, that we had no ownership to, and could not demand its release in any particular format. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. A measure of compassionate understanding might go a long way.

 

[J.T.B.]

Who said he was right? I am someone who believes strongly in understanding a person's emotional point of view. Whether he is right nor, as @cooleddie74 stated, it was his property, that we had no ownership to, and could not demand its release in any particular format. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. A measure of compassionate understanding might go a long way.

The question I'm looking at is whether it is "right" to suppress a work which had a substantial historical and cultural impact. Morally right, ethically right. His emotional point of view isn't relevant to that question. No one is arguing that Lucas can't suppress it, but I've not seen much of an argument in ethical terms as to why he should.

Edit: "can't suppress" for "can suppress."

 

[fireproof78]

The question I'm looking at is whether it is "right" to suppress a work which had a substantial historical and cultural impact. Morally right, ethically right. His emotional point of view isn't relevant to that question. No one is arguing that Lucas can suppress it, but I've not seen much of an argument in ethical terms as to why he should.

Because it was his property. He had the freedom to chose what was done with it. His not releasing it does nothing to reduce the impact on film history.

 

[J.T.B.]

Because it was his property. He had the freedom to chose what was done with it. His not releasing it does nothing to reduce the impact on film history.

I disagree. If the work is not available to future generations, that is by definition an impact on film history.

 

[Campe]

It does seem to be an act of suppressing film history. The lack of release (with appropriate warnings for modern audiences, of course) of Song of the South is a similar (but not exact) example of this.

And again, I don't think anyone is arguing against GL or Disney or whoever to make changes to the movies they want. Just allowing the original version to be released alongside it in a more modern form. Put it on Disney+ if they need to to keep the cost down. But having SOMETHING is all that's being suggested. It likely won't happen, but its a nice thought.

 

[fireproof78]

I disagree. If the work is not available to future generations, that is by definition an impact on film history.

I'm not so sure. If it is made available to the National Film Registry or the Library of Congress then it is preserved for history. So, I would argue for that.

And, honestly, I don't believe for a moment that most people wanting it released in their preferred format are arguing for film history sake but for their own personal use. Which makes me less than sympathetic.

 

[J.T.B.]

I'm not so sure. If it is made available to the National Film Registry or the Library of Congress then it is preserved for history. So, I would argue for that.

Lucasfilm has so far refused to provide a copy of the 1977 movie to the National Film Registry. The Library of Congress has an original copyright deposit print, but it is not available for research and no effort is made to preserve its condition.

And, honestly, I don't believe for a moment that most people wanting it released in their preferred format are arguing for film history sake but for their own personal use. Which makes me less than sympathetic.

That may be, but that's not what I'm arguing.

 

[fireproof78]

Lucasfilm has so far refused to provide a copy of the 1977 movie to the National Film Registry. The Library of Congress has an original copyright deposit print, but it is not available for research and no effort is made to preserve its condition.

Then that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Preserving it in the historical archives or other such depositories strikes me as rather normal. So, that is odd. I would agree that petitioning for such things to happen, both a copy to the National Film Registry and preserving the Library of Congress copy would be a good idea for the sake of film history.

 

[Maurice]

Because it was his property. He had the freedom to chose what was done with it. His not releasing it does nothing to reduce the impact on film history.

Actually, it was 20th Century Fox's property. Lucas got the sequel and merchandising rights.

I'm happy Spielberg reversed himself on his own Special Editions, reverting the awful no-guns E.T. changes, for instance.

 

[fireproof78]

Actually, it was 20th Century Fox's property. Lucas got the sequel and merchandising rights.

I'm happy Spielberg reversed himself on his own Special Editions, reverting the awful no-guns E.T. changes, for instance.

Then who do we picket?

 

[J.T.B.]

Then that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Preserving it in the historical archives or other such depositories strikes me as rather normal. So, that is odd. I would agree that petitioning for such things to happen, both a copy to the National Film Registry and preserving the Library of Congress copy would be a good idea for the sake of film history.

The purpose of the copyright deposit is simply to have an officially registered record of what is being copyrighted. There is no way that the budget of that office could allow for preservation efforts for its vast collection.

The National Film Preservation Board/National Film Registry does have preservation resources, but there's not much they can do without a print. So I agree, it is odd, but it does seem to be the Lucasfilm position that they're OK with these films being erased from history.

 

[fireproof78]

The purpose of the copyright deposit is simply to have an officially registered record of what is being copyrighted. There is no way that the budget of that office could allow for preservation efforts for its vast collection.

The National Film Preservation Board/National Film Registry does have preservation resources, but there's not much they can do without a print. So I agree, it is odd, but it does seem to be the Lucasfilm position that they're OK with these films being erased from history.

It is odd. Which is why I still have VHS and take copies of that.

 

[Campe]

I'll be honest. I'm weird. I WANT to pay Disney for a legal copy of the original 1977 Star Wars, whether that be through the purchase of a disc, a digital file or streaming on D+. I currently may or may not have in my possession several different versions of the film that aren't readily purchasable. If I wanted to be selfish just for my own viewing, I'd leave it at that. But I think it is important to support the idea of things like this. I think its important to support film being celebrated. I'm sorry George is embarrassed by the original version of Star Wars. But its an important piece of cinema. I'd love to show my son that version first. And he may never want to watch it again deciding to focus on the Saga version. Or he might hate Star Wars. That's cool too!

And bringing it back to the actual topic of conversation, I think that TMP's SLV is the same thing. Yes, its an inferior version to either the theatrical or the director's cut. But its a piece of Star Trek history that many fans had as their first and only version of the film for a long time. And while I'm not sure I'd pay full price for the first four Star Trek movies on UHD (the price of which has gone from $70 to $105 and is now around $90 on Amazon... weird), I would pay for all three versions of TMP.

But I also admit I'm weird.

 

[fireproof78]

I'll be honest. I'm weird. I WANT to pay Disney for a legal copy of the original 1977 Star Wars, whether that be through the purchase of a disc, a digital file or streaming on D+. I currently may or may not have in my possession several different versions of the film that aren't readily purchasable. If I wanted to be selfish just for my own viewing, I'd leave it at that. But I think it is important to support the idea of things like this. I think its important to support film being celebrated. I'm sorry George is embarrassed by the original version of Star Wars. But its an important piece of cinema. I'd love to show my son that version first. And he may never want to watch it again deciding to focus on the Saga version. Or he might hate Star Wars. That's cool too!

And bringing it back to the actual topic of conversation, I think that TMP's SLV is the same thing. Yes, its an inferior version to either the theatrical or the director's cut. But its a piece of Star Trek history that many fans had as their first and only version of the film for a long time. And while I'm not sure I'd pay full price for the first four Star Trek movies on UHD (the price of which has gone from $70 to $105 and is now around $90 on Amazon... weird), I would pay for all three versions of TMP.

But I also admit I'm weird.

I respect that, and also the weirdness. I certainly can't throw stones because I still own VHS and am proud of it. To me the modern day insistence of updating video formats is ridiculous waste of money. I'll own my weirdness until the day I die.

That said, I will also be the one to say that we as fans put value in to things that producers and studios do not. To them it is a matter of how much does it cost to do this thing? Is it going to sell beyond a niche market? Will we profit off of it? They lack the historical connection that fans do, the thrill of it.

Now, despite my other comments, I would love for studios to give consumers as many options that are reasonable. But, I can't help but see the business and emotional side-that it actually won't sell and/or it is an anomaly that people want this.

It's a hard line to walk for many. I don't agree with Lucas but I understand Lucas. I don't agree with fans wanting HD but I can appreciate making that available on the market. I would hope that the studios make enough money on the weird and random stuff fans insist they would buy (whether or not they do I won't go in to) to make it worth while.

But, all of that I just don't see being more than a lot of talk without conviction behind it of an actual purchase. But, as I said, I'm weird.

 

[Campe]

Your suggestion that fans put more value in things than studios do is probably fair... BUT...

Disney+ has released a ton of legacy content in regards to Star Wars, in HD, no less: the Droids and Ewoks cartoon series, the Ewoks TV movies, the Gendy Clone Wars series, hell, even the Boba Fett cartoon from the Holiday Special. They didn't HAVE to release these and I'm honestly shocked they did. Admittedly, I imagine that most of that (perhaps with the exception of the COMPLETE cartoon series) were completely released on home video (all DVD, including parts of Droids and Ewoks cartoons, except for the Holiday Special cartoon which was on the saga blu-rays) before says something about the fact that they already exist in HD. But if you don't think that LFL doesn't have a copy of the unaltered trilogy in their possession in probably the highest quality imaginable, I think you're dreaming. It would cost very little for them to drop them on D+. But it comes down to, again, George's ego. And I get it too. I don't like it. I think its silly. But I get it.

And I've bought the Star Wars movies more times than I care to admit. I'd buy these too. Day one.

 

[fireproof78]

Your suggestion that fans put more value in things than studios do is probably fair... BUT...

Disney+ has released a ton of legacy content in regards to Star Wars, in HD, no less: the Droids and Ewoks cartoon series, the Ewoks TV movies, the Gendy Clone Wars series, hell, even the Boba Fett cartoon from the Holiday Special. They didn't HAVE to release these and I'm honestly shocked they did. Admittedly, I imagine that most of that (perhaps with the exception of the COMPLETE cartoon series) were completely released on home video (all DVD, including parts of Droids and Ewoks cartoons, except for the Holiday Special cartoon which was on the saga blu-rays) before says something about the fact that they already exist in HD. But if you don't think that LFL doesn't have a copy of the unaltered trilogy in their possession in probably the highest quality imaginable, I think you're dreaming. It would cost very little for them to drop them on D+. But it comes down to, again, George's ego. And I get it too. I don't like it. I think its silly. But I get it.

And I've bought the Star Wars movies more times than I care to admit. I'd buy these too. Day one.

I was surprised too and I think it is a matter of time. Of course LFL has the copies. That is never in doubt. But, it is whether there is enough fan demand that would actually purchase it (not just people buying one or two) then it can be justified. It would probably be an event. But, I the demand has to get pretty high to actually demonstrate Yes people will actually put up money and not just say "Oh, I'll buy it" and then never do. Seen that way too many times.

 

[Campe]

I was surprised too and I think it is a matter of time. Of course LFL has the copies. That is never in doubt. But, it is whether there is enough fan demand that would actually purchase it (not just people buying one or two) then it can be justified. It would probably be an event. But, I the demand has to get pretty high to actually demonstrate Yes people will actually put up money and not just say "Oh, I'll buy it" and then never do. Seen that way too many times.

Which is why I'm gunning for a Disney+ release -- a far more palatable thing for Disney/LFL. Particularly in the current climate. It costs them very little.

 

[fireproof78]

Which is why I'm gunning for a Disney+ release -- a far more palatable thing for Disney/LFL. Particularly in the current climate. It costs them very little.

Just got to demonstrate the demand is there.

 

[StalwartUK]

It doesn't seem like Disney or LucasFilm give a toss about the original cuts of the Star Wars movies these days. I doubt they'd clutter Disney+ with them either, which is more about promoting the current brand of Star Wars than anything else.

Disney are more than happy to keep anything that doesn't fit their current brand image under lock and key like Song of the South. Even if they released the original versions of the Star Wars movies and made millions of $ in the process that's still pocket change for a big corporation like Disney.

As for TMP SLV that was just a bunch of deleted scenes put back into the movie right?

 

[Campe]

Just got to demonstrate the demand is there.

I would stand to believe that there is higher demand for the original versions of the OT to be released than all of the other legacy Star Wars stuff D+ has put out there.