Star Trek & Star Wars meeting

[Shawnster]

You have that, and you also have Star Wars talking about light speed only. Warp is faster than light. Plus, they rarely talk about time as you point out. I always got the impression that the galaxy is smaller and Star Wars doesn't use realistic distances. So I wouldn't go that far.

Words and labels are just those. Words. Easily interchangeable. Instead of saying "lightspeed" or "warp" the writers could have said potato speed or moving at the speed of brown. These terms are meaningless in such discussions.

Instead the only way to accurately compare the two is to look for units of measurement that can be transposed between the two franchises. Common measurements like sleep/wake cycles, eating cycles, etc...

There was a website that I've since lost track of (it may not exist any more) that went into such details. It compared the destructive force of a Star Destroyer vs. the Enterprise when facing the same or similar target. We see star destroyers destroying asteroids in Empire. We've seen the Enterprise target and destroy asteroids. That would be a valid comparison point.

Another example is telepathic distance. The Force lets someone touch minds and implant thoughts over a distance. Vulcan mind-melds are limited to touch (except for Sarek and Michael. And that one time Spock was on the Yang/Khom planet). There is another equal data point comparison.

Yes, Star Wars calls it light speed but light speed can take the Millennium Falcon from the outer rim of the galaxy to the heart of the Empire in such a short time that the passengers need not sleep or eat a meal. Light speed can get Palpatine from Coruscant to Mustafar before Anakin died of his injuries. Light speed is clearly faster than the speed of light.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Star Wars and Star Trek have such different styles and messages I’m not sure what they have to add to each other.

Maybe mitochlorians are actually mycelial spores and... (Sees angry mob with torches and pitchforks) ...I think I have to run away and change my identity now.

 

[Tuskin38]

You have that, and you also have Star Wars talking about light speed only. Warp is faster than light. Plus, they rarely talk about time as you point out. I always got the impression that the galaxy is smaller and Star Wars doesn't use realistic distances. So I wouldn't go that far.

I don't think their lasers are as powerful as photon torpedoes or phasers. Of course, the Death Star is a big deal, I will give you that.

In the expanded lore the Star Wars galaxy is roughly the same size as ours, Lightspeed/Hyperspace is faster than the speed of light, and their 'lasers'/blasters are plasma based weaponry, not actual lasers.

There was a website that I've since lost track of (it may not exist any more)

Sounds like Stardestroyer.net based off your description, it still exists.

(except for Sarek and Michael. And that one time Spock was on the Yang/Khom planet).

Spock also sensed the death of the Vulcan crew of the USS Intrepid. Not exactly the same as your examples, but it was still a telepathic link.

The entire galaxy is charted.

Actually it isn't, there's a giant chunk of it that hasn't been explored in Star Wars.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe mitochlorians are actually mycelial spores and

Finally, a crossover I can get behind!

 

[Phoenix219]

I think technologically, Star Trek is far superior to Star Wars. Weapons, shields, speed--all Star Trek. In a fleet battle, I think Star Trek would destroy Star Wars. But the Force is the great equalizer.

The Federation wouldn't be able to have an answer if they ran across a ship of Force users.

That said, Plato's Stepchildren provided a blue print, where McCoy would learn of midichlorians and give Kirk double those of Vader.

Q could certainly be a match for a Force user as well. So would Gary Mitchell, and maybe Apollo, as long as Vader couldn't figure out how to destroy the temple.

That would be one of the most amazing scenes ever filmed.

The whole topic made me think of Star Trek - Gods and Men. Mitchell as a Force Wielding Emperor and all.... so I guess I feel like I have kind of seen this story. Mitchell basically gained access to the Force via the Barrier, so who knows how prevalent the Force is on a universal scale. Maybe WE/Trek-humans are the great experiment, the only part of the Universe that does NOT have access to the Force, that is blocked off from our galaxy via the Barrier.....

 

[Phoenix219]

A Genesis torpedo would beat the death star. It also causes as much damage, and is easier to make, assuming the tech wasn't lost.

Of course, maybe the tech was lost, as it sure would have made a great weapon against the Borg.

I guess that's another topic.

I don't think the Star Wars tech could match anything Borg related. If they adapt to the Death Star, then only the Force can help, and there aren't enough Force users to stop the Borg. Plus, the Borg could overwhelm any force user with numbers. Just like the Clone Troopers overwhelmed the Jedi.

Borg + Death Star = Unicron.

 

[Specter]

Vader borg would be cool though
Maybe he would hook up w the borg queen

genesis was probably banned just like speaking of discovery and michael bernham was banned

then again why dont they just wipe out the borg and use it
Maybe youre right and it was lost

 

[Kirk Prime]

Crossovers are interesting. I really do see the Trek tech as much better when it comes to shields and battles, and while I believe Trek has the speed advantage too, I can accept that Star Wars speed levels could be on par based on some of the arguments made in this thread.

But I don't think the Empire has any answer to the Borg. Sometimes I think the Borg are too powerful.

And here's an example--how fast can they adapt? Let's say you have a weapon that could destroy a Borg ship in one shot--how could a second ship adapt?

One problem I had with the Borg in FC is that they changed the adaptation process to make Borg more like bees that sting you and turn you into a Borg instantly. That's different than BOBW where the Borg did it surgically.

Now you could argue that the Borg came up with a new technique in between BOBW and FC, but while the FC way is more scary, it also seems that the Borg adaptation process is like a disease. Couldn't science come up with a method to prevent the Borg nanites from taking hold? Like anti-bodies? I don't remember the specifics of Species 8472, but they were resistant to the Borg. Of course that becomes an issue too--why couldn't the Borg adapt to their resistance?

Getting back on topic, could a Force user have the ability to stave off a Borg sting with the Force?

How would the Borg do against the Harry Potter wizards?

 

[Specter]

I always get confused with borg. It seemed picard could have wiped em out w a virus but cares about living things too much. (Do people still swat mosquitoes in the future?) and then janeway blew up what I thought was the queen with her temporal move to get armor for voyager and yet they still live on

could they beat the force? I dont think so. I think the force is and is supposed to be the most powerful thing evah

it’s just been abused and misused from the outset if sw and maybe it is the great equalizer

I think Vulcans could meld with it though.

i think a crossover would work
After all look how cool it was to merge old trek and kirk with captain Sisco in ds9 season 5.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Picard not wiping them out was beyond stupid. That was bad writing. And Voyager ruined the Borg. But for my purposes, I am talking about the Borg of TNG, when they were actually tough.

It's really an interesting thought--more interesting than Federation v. Empire. I think the Borg would decimate the Empire, but what about Force users?

The Borg should not only be difficult, but they should be hyper intelligent. If they are combining the brain power of billions/trillions of minds, then they should be able to think intelligently.

The Borg could do many things to adapt to the Force, and they should be able to learn to use it. So the question would be how?

Here is a thought--The Borg's plan to assimilate 21st century Earth was stupid, but they do have the ability to time travel. So they could pick a Jedi or Sith, travel back to when that Force user was a baby, and assimilate it. That would give them access to midichlorians.

A Borg could instantly learn to use a lightsaber as well as any Jedi/Sith. Look at Grievous.

The real question is whether a Jedi could be hit with a Borg stinger, and somehow use the Force to save himself from Borg nanites on a cellular level.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Crossovers are interesting. I really do see the Trek tech as much better when it comes to shields and battles, and while I believe Trek has the speed advantage too, I can accept that Star Wars speed levels could be on par based on some of the arguments made in this thread.

But I don't think the Empire has any answer to the Borg. Sometimes I think the Borg are too powerful.

And here's an example--how fast can they adapt? Let's say you have a weapon that could destroy a Borg ship in one shot--how could a second ship adapt?

One problem I had with the Borg in FC is that they changed the adaptation process to make Borg more like bees that sting you and turn you into a Borg instantly. That's different than BOBW where the Borg did it surgically.

Now you could argue that the Borg came up with a new technique in between BOBW and FC, but while the FC way is more scary, it also seems that the Borg adaptation process is like a disease. Couldn't science come up with a method to prevent the Borg nanites from taking hold? Like anti-bodies? I don't remember the specifics of Species 8472, but they were resistant to the Borg. Of course that becomes an issue too--why couldn't the Borg adapt to their resistance?

Getting back on topic, could a Force user have the ability to stave off a Borg sting with the Force?

How would the Borg do against the Harry Potter wizards?

Phlox came up with a method in five minutes while being assimilated.

All the scientists who could have focused on an anti-Borg vaccine instead focused on introducing viruses. If you think about it, you can assume most people in a position to be assimilated are dead anyway, so it would only help in a FC situation where the Borg have lost their ship and are raiding yours starting with fewer men.

The Borg are always portrayed as intelligent just rigid and uncreative. They can’t consider tactics they have never seen and can’t think of alternative strategies once their usual adaptation process fails.

 

[Kirk Prime]

All the scientists who could have focused on an anti-Borg vaccine instead focused on introducing viruses. If you think about it, you can assume most people in a position to be assimilated are dead anyway, so it would only help in a FC situation where the Borg have lost their ship and are raiding yours starting with fewer men.

Now we are getting into the absurdity of the FC plot. What is the simplest way to adapt? Increase your force. The Borg lost their ship at Wolf 359. They had one ship. But that one ship all but decimated the entire Federation. Only some creative thinking and rescuing of Picard helped save the day.

So the Borg come up with a plan to assimilate Earth in the 21st century? That makes no sense. Wouldn't it have been easier to send 2 cubes? If one cube did what it did, then two would get the job done. And to play it safe, send 5.

Also, if you are going to time travel to stop your enemy, why send an invasion cube and not just go back in time in the Delta Quadrant, and take care of it then?

That said, what would 21st century humans offer the collective?

Now--let's look at the BOBW Borg. Drones are NOT dead. If that were the case, Picard would not have been able to be recovered. Picard was assimilated, but it was different. They surgically implanted parts in you--and apparently, we saw Borg actually had children (or kidnapped them).

They certainly didn't do the bee sting thing. If they had, they could have assimilated the entire E-D crew.

 

[JD]

Picard was not the only former Borg drone we saw, we also saw Seven, Icheb, Mizoti, Rebi, Izan, Marikah Wilkarah, Lansor, P'Chan, Hugh and Lore's ex-Borg, and Riley Frasier and the Collective.

The whole topic made me think of Star Trek - Gods and Men. Mitchell as a Force Wielding Emperor and all.... so I guess I feel like I have kind of seen this story. Mitchell basically gained access to the Force via the Barrier, so who knows how prevalent the Force is on a universal scale. Maybe WE/Trek-humans are the great experiment, the only part of the Universe that does NOT have access to the Force, that is blocked off from our galaxy via the Barrier.....

OK, despite my earlier criticism, this actually kind of works for me.

 

[theenglish]

Star Wars may have discovered many planets, but that doesn't mean there aren't unknown territories and other galaxies. We don't get a sense of their exploration. It had to exist.

Star Wars travel is much faster. Although they don't seem to be able to travel between galaxies they can travel anywhere they wish in their own galaxy. Travel via hyperdrive seems to be dependent on the quality of the maps that they use. At some point though, there must have been a period of exploration when these maps were actually made--which would be an interesting period to explore.

 

[theenglish]

Yes, Star Wars calls it light speed but light speed can take the Millennium Falcon from the outer rim of the galaxy to the heart of the Empire in such a short time that the passengers need not sleep or eat a meal. Light speed can get Palpatine from Coruscant to Mustafar before Anakin died of his injuries. Light speed is clearly faster than the speed of light.

But in Star Wars, light speed seems to refer to non-hyperdrive travel. The Falcon can travel at a little more than Warp 1 until it makes a jump, in which case it can travel great distances. Speed doesn't seem to be a factor in hyperspace--in Trek terms it would be similar to traveling through a wormhole.

 

[Specter]

Yes, it is as though sw has a ton of worm holes and they all were mapped

hmmmmmm....

Maybe just maybe... star trek is in THEIR past and the few we have found like the one near DS9 were among the earliest mapped, and things Janeway found are to be mapped too. And WE are all before starwars!
In say 500 years or 1000 or more, we are them. The Borg morphed into the force and Hugh, the good borg kid from the “I Borg” next gen episode becomes the good force whereas the queen is the bad force and so on. They morph into what Star Wars has in it that we see.

And, when we viewers of sw movies see it say “a long long time ago...” in the opening credits, that assumes we viewers are from the future of when Star Wars was set, which means we are from the future of Star Trek, which means we are in a massive time loop and so the very last scene of whatever crazy movie that describes when wormhole maps were made and merges the two shows becomes, the very last thing is Q popping up and winking at us like Santa Clause might and the film ends!

or not
Hahahaha

 

[Nerys Myk]

Force users seem far and few between in the "present day" Star Wars Universe, so it wouldn't be a major factor. (Unless the current film changes that. NO DO NOT TELL ME!!!)

 

[JD]

Star Wars travel is much faster. Although they don't seem to be able to travel between galaxies they can travel anywhere they wish in their own galaxy. Travel via hyperdrive seems to be dependent on the quality of the maps that they use. At some point though, there must have been a period of exploration when these maps were actually made--which would be an interesting period to explore.

The old Legends Tales of the Jedi series took place thousands of years before The Original Trilogy a couple of the characters charted hyperspace routes. I've only read about the series on Wookiepedia, so I'm not sure how much of a role charting hyperspace routes plays in the story.

 

[Specter]

Um actually I produced the new sw film
Im just here feeling things out
It is all about a st sw meetup

(I aint seen it yet)

 

[theenglish]

The old Legends Tales of the Jedi series took place thousands of years before The Original Trilogy a couple of the characters charted hyperspace routes. I've only read about the series on Wookiepedia, so I'm not sure how much of a role charting hyperspace routes plays in the story.

I wasn't even aware that it existed--but I have not read many EU stories.