Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion

[Tuskin38]

Yes, Fuller (or Fuller's successors) requested that it should be changed to fit in better with his new show. So it wasn't supposed to be the same ship, only in spirit.

Bryan Fuller had left the show before they decided to bring in the Enterprise. He never intended for it to show up at all, which is why one of the first tie in novels had it show up, the author was told he didn’t need to worry about it.

I might be misremembering, but I believe it was Akiva that pushed for the Enterprise to show up in the finale. Which lines up with him really wanting to do a Pike story.

In either Eaves’s art book or the book that came with the Eaglemoss model, Eaves said he was very relieved that he didn’t have to give the Enterprise square nacelles.

I dunno why Kurtzman bothered trying to make up an explanation for the bald Klingons

It wasn’t Kurtzman that came up with a lore reason, IIRC it was Glenn Hetrick

Glenn is a trek fan, so he was probably just making his own head canon and then someone higher up liked it.

 

[Tuskin38]

and sounded like his cheeks were stuffed with cotton wool.

I still don’t think the makeup was the cause of that, because when Ash Tyler spoke Klingon he sounded the same without the makeup.

Mary Cheiffo (L’Rell) also sounds the same in Star Trek online, and that’s a pure voice over job, no makeup obviously.

I think it was just the way they were coached to speak Klingon.

 

[Farscape One]

Of course, if they really wanted to keep that "surprise" (which it never really was anyway) and also the older Klingon design, they could have simply cast one actor as Voq and one as Tyler.

But they also would have needed to write the 'mystery' of it all better too.

DISCO needed to write better, period.

 

[Turtletrekker]

My head canon about the Klingons in Discovery comes from their last appearance in Enterprise, that had the explanation for the smooth headed Klingons.

The Klingon doctor played by John Schuck suggests that cranial reconstruction surgery will probably become a popular thing in the Empire in the future. I see the Klingons in Discovery as taking what was once simple cosmetic restoration of head ridges and turned into a cultural trend taken to an extreme. A form of body art, like tattoos or piercings. It seems very Klingon to me.

 

[Trekker4747]

Sigh, DS9 could have solved the Klingon thing just by not acknowledging it and give the impression Klingons always had ridges, but TOS couldn't afford to present them with their production limitations of the time.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Sigh, DS9 could have solved the Klingon thing just by not acknowledging it and give the impression Klingons always had ridges, but TOS couldn't afford to present them with their production limitations of the time.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. What's done is done.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I loved that they showed the original Klingons were actually what they looked like! It was the last thing preventing TOS from being firmly connected to the rest of the franchise.

 

[The Wormhole]

The Discovery Klingon design was propelled by one thing--to make the Ash/Voq business surprising, which wouldn't have happened if Shazad Latif were under the old style makeup.

And yet, everyone figured it out anyway.

 

[Tuskin38]

I loved that they showed the original Klingons were actually what they looked like! It was the last thing preventing TOS from being firmly connected to the rest of the franchise.

That’s not how continuity works. TOS will always be canon even if designs are retconned.

Changing the look of the Klingons does not invalidate TOS

 

[Tuskin38]

Garrett’s phaser appears to be based off this Ray Lai design

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/vbz4Yv

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

That’s not how continuity works. TOS will always be canon even if designs are retconned.

Changing the look of the Klingons does not invalidate TOS

It matters a lot to me, and honestly my opinion's the only one I care about when it comes to this subject.

 

[Daedalus]

I still don’t think the makeup was the cause of that, because when Ash Tyler spoke Klingon he sounded the same without the makeup.

Mary Cheiffo (L’Rell) also sounds the same in Star Trek online, and that’s a pure voice over job, no makeup obviously.

I think it was just the way they were coached to speak Klingon.

They're still a bit more "speaking with a hot potato in your mouth" with the make-up, as if they have someone squeezing their cheeks as they talked. It might just be that some of the actors were struggling with the false Klingon teeth.

 

[James Cole]

The Disco-Klingons could have worked if they were limited to T'Kuvma's followers. The descendants of Klingon fundamentalists who were part Hur'q or something.

They really shot themselves in the foot when they showed that all of the heads of the great houses had that look as well... and then showing Disco-Mirror Voq also having that look. So alt universe it is.

DISCOVERY season 1 is actually a decently enjoyable watch if you go in assuming it's not supposed to be in the original Star Trek timeline. It's so different that it actually works, unlike other seasons set in the "reimagined" "reinterpreted" 23rd century that fall into the uncanny valley of being too similar and too different to what came before. Hell on those terms, DS1 > ST09/STID/STB.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

T'Kuvma's followers being ancient Klingons from a giant sleeper ship or descendents of the Hur'q woud've been so good, especially if most Klingons of the time looked human. They'd have a much stronger case to make about remaining Klingon and reclaiming their identity. The season could've ended with L'Rell saying that with their DNA and her leadership they can restore the Klingons to their true appearance within 20 years or whatever, so they get some of what they wanted.

 

[fireproof78]

I mean, was that not the intention? Same with the Enterprise?

If it was that was not the impression I labored under.

I just figure that the DSC Klingons are the failed attempt to reverse engineer the Augment Virus and scientists going a little too far towards more primitive proto-Klingon features, the TNG/Movie-style ones in SNW are the start of the return to normal for Klingon society and the TOS Augments are the last waves of Klingons affected by the Augment Virus before the problem is eradicated around the time of ST:TMP.

This was more my thinking. That the Klingons, especially the leadership in the great houses, decided to try to experiment, or attempted to selectively breed, creating "blue bloods" within the royalty of the Great Houses, with various phenotypes appearing.

I mean, the whole explanation of the Klingons is a genetic virus that can alter the outer appearance once exposed. Attempts to reverse engineer it are sufficient rationale for Discovery Klingons for me.

Besides, the sheer number of different forehead ridges throughout Trek means variety is baked in to the Klingon concept to me. Sorry, the TMP Klingons to Kruge don't make much sense to me.

 

[Daedalus]

If it was that was not the impression I labored under.

What was your impression when you saw the new Klingons?(in terms of continuity)

The Disco-Klingons could have worked if they were limited to T'Kuvma's followers. The descendants of Klingon fundamentalists who were part Hur'q or something.

They really shot themselves in the foot when they showed that all of the heads of the great houses had that look as well... and then showing Disco-Mirror Voq also having that look. So alt universe it is.

Just a single house of Enterprise augments would've sufficed, plus another house of TNG Klingons to sweeten the deal.

 

[fireproof78]

What was your impression when you saw the new Klingons?(in terms of continuity)

Another phenotype, possibly due to attempts to reverse the augment virus.

 

[Citiprime]

My feeling on this has always been the Klingon redesign was stupid because it created an issue and distraction that wasn't necessary, and ultimately hurt the story they were trying to tell.

Is there anything about the Discovery season 1 Klingons that is intrinsically Klingon? Anything that you can point to where they wanted to tie it into any event or continuity from any previous series that becomes significant?

No.

So why call them Klingons? And if someone says: "It's about them being a proud warrior race." Well you know there's been about a dozen of those in Star Trek canon.

If they made them a new creation that explored the ideas of cultural purity pushed by a demagogue, how that filters down into discrimination and radicalizes a population, and the Federation having to deal with a threat they couldn't really reason with because they were no longer behaving rationally, that's interesting. Those are concepts that can make for great stories.

If they had made them anything other than Klingons they're not tied down to any previous continuity! They can go in ANY direction they want with it. And you don't have fans focusing on the makeup instead of the story.

 

[fireproof78]

If they had made them anything other than Klingons they're not tied down to any previous continuity! They can go in ANY direction they want with it. And you don't have fans focusing on the makeup instead of the story

So, keep it all the same and don't call them Klingons and fans accept without questions?

 

[Lord Garth]

Early-Disco is the only Pre-TOS thing I'm a fan of, specifically because it was so different that it made me forget about it. As far as the Klingons, I've already said everything I wanted to about them back in 2017-2019. As soon as Picard was announced, I knew they'd work their way back to TNG Klingons because I thought if Worf were to ever appear, there was no way they'd make him look like a Disco Klingon and Michael Dorn wouldn't have agreed to it anyway.

My final thoughts about what I would've wanted for Section 31:

If you look at "Inquisition" and "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges", something in that style is what I wanted. Keep Georgiou, keep Alok, keep Garrett, and keep Quasi, but drop everyone else. Go more into these specific characters. Show more of their backstory and motivations.

Sum up the situation in the 2320s. The Romulans are out of the picture, the Klingons are still recovering, the Cardassians are on their radar but not a problem yet, have all this in a briefing where they talk about the status quo (and bring the audience up to speed), then shift the focus to what else is going on in the galaxy. Then they're acknowledging, "We can't do anything with the major AQ powers because they're locked into their status quo until TNG, but we can do something with these other races that we don't know anything about!"

So that's the tone I want, the greater emphasis on the characters, and we have the framing of the Lost Era and it looks like a deliberate choice instead of a random one.

Also show that Section 31 and Starfleet are two different sides of the Federation Coin. And address head-on the biggest debate in Star Trek: "Humanity has evolved" vs. "Human nature will never change". Throw in "We have to do what we do so you can do what you do."

All of that would've summed up Section 31. This movie didn't go into any of that. They purposely went out of their way to avoid all of it. What I wanted was a movie that has its own specific viewpoint even if someone doesn't agree with it. This movie gave all that up just to be popcorn entertainment that can't measure up to other popcorn entertainment.

Fin.