Star Trek Reviewed Reorganization... opinions?

[Barbreader]

Most of you don't care, so I get that. But if anyone here uses my website, I am looking for the input of users.

I am moving my links to where you can watch Pro Trek and read and watch reviews of Pro Trek off the website to a companion website. Here are the names in contention, and they have been weeded down a bit by polls elsewhere:

A) Star Trek Reviewed - CBS and Paramount
B) Star Trek Reviewed - TV and Movies
C) Star Trek Reviewed - Professional-Canon.

Each name has issues. Some fan films consider themselves movies or TV shows, making B confusing. Some are produced by show business professionals, and are treated as canon by OTHER fan films, making C confusing. Desilu produced TOS, and it ran on NBC, so it might be confusing to say CBS and Paramount. But I have to make space and move the little used Where to watch and reviews of Pro Trek links offsite.

Basically, I've run out of room for my combo lists (I have a list for Historic Fan Films now. I found one from 1967!!! Two years older that Jr. Star Trek, four years older than Gasser's Trek! Not anyone's idea of a great film, but of historic interest! http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/137.html (A))!

I also ran out of room for mixed time line Trek where that is the intention of the filmmaker. (Mostly comedies and parodies)

I am almost out of room for Silver Age Trek. (TNG, VOY, DS9)

I moved Go!Animate so I now have 30 slots for Golden Age Trek, and I have only 3 Stone Age films with 7 empty slots. Pre-stone Age might be a problem, but for the moment, I've decided to not deal with that as I know of no films in the pipeline for Trek set prior to Enterprise.

Sometime before year end I have to start this move, and for anyone here with an opinion other than, "Shut down the stupid website, I hate it." ... I'm interested in your opinion. For those who hate the website, I apologize for being annoying, but I do want other people's thoughts, if they have them.

 

[Maurice]

Nomenclature can be a tricky thing, especially for a field where what TV means in changing, and some "movies" never ever get a theatrical release of any sort.

All three names are awkward because they presume a certain level of knowledge. However, B is the the most accurate and understandable to the average person.

You could just be Star Trek Reviewed and leave off the qualifiers, and merely qualify only the Fan Productions in order to differentiate them.

 

[Captain Atkin]

I think it is good to keep it as user-friendly as possible.

Maybe something like:

Star Trek Reviewed

Official Star Trek

1. The Movies
2. The Television Series
3. Books, Novels, & Comics
4. Computer & Video Games

Fan Productions (non-canon)

4. Fan Films
5. Fan Episodes
6. Fan Parodies
7. Fan Animation
8. Fan Stories & Comics

 

[Barbreader]

Maurice, I'm leaning strongly toward following your advice. This week is a week with a lot of releases (two since so far, and I'm expecting at least two more) so I'm busy with just processing. Meanwhile I wish I could tell you how grateful I feel when somebody bothers to give me a useful opinion. Thank you!

Speaking of useful opinions, Captain Atkins, when the day comes I do a complete reorganization, I like that outline. I do think I"ll stick with the time-line first, but then I might go for those subcatagories within each timeline. Also I am limiting myself to films and audio. There are other compilations of Star Trek fan fiction and comics, and even music videos. I have links to those websites at the bottom of my website, together with links to fan film magazines, Star Trek websites, and many other lists and links.

You would probably be shocked at how many hours it takes to just keep up with listing fan films. But the benefits of this are that I find things like that 1967 film, which was past page 50 of a search of a single, somewhat smaller video hosting website. Not You Tube, not Vimeo, not Veho. Page 50 on my search. But because I focus only on fan films, when I hunt, I hunt hard. I didn't stop paging through at the first sign there were seven irrelevant pages in a row with twenty links each to fans talking about Star Trek. (Discussions are also generally not included in the website, except formal reviews of specific films, and those on a selective basis).

OK, let me explain my situation a little more. I an not a great website person. I created Star Trek Reviewed so that there were 250 on-site pages. If I add more pages, they go ON TOP, which I don't want. Instead, I am moving the less used sections to separate websites, which are then linked in to the original Star Trek Reviewed through the Table of Contents and the Index, but need their own names. Hence, the name question. Between consolidating the short historic fan films into one list, and moving Go!Animate and the Professional Trek on the web links offsite, I will have freed up roughly 100 of those 250 pages. I was almost out of room for Golden Age (TOS, TAS, JJA) Star Trek, getting close on Silver Age (TNG, DS9, VOY) Trek, completely out of space for compilations (lists of short films) and for Trek with no timeline. The only thing which still had ample room was Stone Age Trek (ENT) and Bronze Age Trek (Star Trek Beyond) while not swimming in space, was also not out of room. Likewise pre-stone age Trek (Stone Trek, Silent Movie, etc.) while not out of room is not swimming, but in both of these cases, I also don't see a lot in the pipeline. There is a new Bronze Age series being filmed right now, which will probably start being released next year, but that's all ONE series, one page. Also, the Scandanavian Star Trek: Gatekeeper, set something like 1000 years after our Trek, is a crossover film with that other galaxy Far Far Away. But that's all I see in that time period.

I don't know how to create a website and I don't have money to pay somebody to host it if I did. I've considered putting up ads on Blogspot (they keep asking to do it based on my traffic) and seeing whether that would show a cash flow that could justify paying a web hosting company. But I'm not there yet. I worry about ads making the website harder to use.

For now, the website complex includes the following websites:

The Central site: Star Trek Reviewed
Website for Fan Films not suitable for children: Star Trek Restricted.
Older headlines for people who are too busy to come by once a month or more: Headlines from Star Trek Reviewed.
NEW website which holds the updated and expanded section on Go!Animate films: Star Trek Reviewed - Go!Animate.

The new website would join this complex of websites. Like Star Trek Reviewed-Go!Animate, it's pages will be accessible through Star Trek Reviewed's Table of Contents. It will probably have more entries than that section now has. It will have it's own Table of Contents on top when the website loads, too. The Table of Contents and Index of Go!Animate have to be clicked to, they are at the bottom of the website.

OK, I was trying to not be boring, which is why I didn't include all that in my original post.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

Would it help if you took productions with a large list of episodes, such as Hidden Frontier or Star Trek Defiant (audio), and put those in a separate folder in the Silver section? Would that free up some space? How about putting Phase 2 in its own Gold folder?

I have to chuckle that you've become a victim of your own success. I'm sure when you started the site, you couldn't imagine you'd be on the verge of running out of space.

One final thought: Would it be possible to find someone in the TrekBBS boards or elsewhere to help you manage your site? Not redo it from scratch, but helping you reach your new goals.

If I think of something else, I'll post it here for your consideration, Barb.

 

[Barbreader]

Randy, your thoughts are always welcome.

Phase II takes up only one space. That's the way it works. The only fan film group that takes up more is Hidden Frontier, because their output simply couldn't all be organized on one page. And even they take up only 6 slots, which I think, frankly, they deserve for now. Then there is one slot for the HF-Intrepid crossovers, and one for Intrepid. If things get crowded again after I move Pro Trek, I could consolidate HF into two or three slots, but it's just not a major issue.

I've consolidated some of the school projects and church projects that were over 10 minutes in length (none were as much as 12 minutes, and all were one-shots) with a few that were roughly 9 minutes plus, into another 'group' heading already, Select School and Church projects, vis: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/138.html . Some of these are pretty good.

I've consolidated but not organized the recuts and remixes, which seem to be multiplying like fishes. Anyone who wanted to create a website on recuts, I'd be happy to coordinate their work into my indexing and Table of Contents.

What I have been doing is consolidating some of the films which tend to be short one-shots, but which were barely long enough or unique enough that I originally gave them slots... like the historic films.

All audio dramas and comedies are in a single slot, which is organized by name by alphabetical order, vis: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/247.html . Again, you can't really ask for it to take up LESS room than that. To the best of my knowledge, it's still the best single listing of Star Trek Fan audio on the net.

I've always been ready to share the work. As far as I'm concerned, you have taken up doing enough reviews that I've dropped reviewing, which was a lot of work. As long as people can read something that tells them a bit about a film before watching it, they can do a quickie evaluation, that's all I was looking for, and your reviews do that and more.

Originally I tried to not do audio at all, but the audio folk were really annoyed. I've had people complain I should only do one era, and others that I should also do fan fiction and comics. But the only person who offered to do any work offered to set up forums (and did) but not to run the forums. Frankly, the last thing I think the Star Trek Fan community needed was yet another set of forums. the Trek BBS and Trek United handle that job fine, plus many of the individual fan films have their own, often barely used, forums.

Most of the offers of work were either offers to have me do more work, or suggestions that I abandon the project altogether, or do a different one, or one that required skills I lacked. They weren't offers to help me with this project.

I'm delighted that people are using the website. Some to pick films to create subtitles, some to watch, some to publicize their films.

But if you had told me three years ago (at which time I did not know fan films existed) that I would be doing this, I'd have thought you needed a ride to the loony bin.

 

[Barbreader]

Not entirely relevant to the rest of this thread... but somebody just tried to post a personal attack at Star Trek Reviewed related to something posted here. That person did not sign their name.

All comments are screened before they are posted at Star Trek Reviewed. For a while I had a tourist hosting group in Nepal trying repeatedly to post ads about Trekking to Mount Everest. They seemed pretty sure Trekkies were people who liked to Trek. Other ads and personal attacks have also been attempted.

I will post attacks on the quality of fan films, even if I disagree with them (although I will usually note that) because discussion of the films is a legitimate topic which could interest my readers. Star Trek Reviewed is about WATCHING fan films, not making them, and information about the creators is incidental, not central, to the website. It is NOT the place to air your anger.

Before I came here, I was in the turtle rescue world. (In some websites you will see a critter in my Avatar which is my pet turtle, Timmy, who will be mine for 52 years on Dec. 25, 2011. I got him Dec. 25, 1959, when I was four and he was a hatchling. Despite what you may think, Timmy will drop his favorite food to have me give him a belly rub. He is a pet.). In the turtle rescue world, there was a lot of fighting and tension. The work was worthwhile, often pet abusers simply didn't know what their animals needed, and once they were convinced, a terrible turtle abuser could become a great turtlekeeper. Sadly, the fighting escalated, and I became the victim of a good looking blonde who decided to blacken my name. Even though repeated inquiries proved I had done NONE of the things she repeated charged me with, let's face it... a bunch of guys were the ones to decide between me and a 25 year old with a perfect figure and glowing golden locks. I was toast. After I was banned from that website the traffic dropped by more than 2/3, but they got to keep talking to the blonde. I've gotten back in contact with this brilliant turtle keeper who I think is for turtles what Jane Goodall is for chimps, Amanda Ebenhack, (she's written an amazing book, too!) but I'm gun shy to return and work with her instead of continuing here...

So, I'm not really big on personal attacks. I have no way of knowing who really said what to whom. I get the feeling some of you ... no nice way to put this... are too ready to believe gossip. I wish I knew a good Vulcan or Klingon story but you'll have to settle for a Talmudic one.

A man got mad at the local rabbi. It had been the habit of that rabbi to collect for the poor and distribute basic needs that kept them alive. The man spread false rumors that the rabbi was corrupt, and that the poor people, who he did help, never saw what he collected. People believed the rumors, and the rabbi continued to help the poor as best he could out of his own earnings from teaching and other work he did, but he could not do as much as he had done before. Time passed, and the man had a series of bad breaks, leaving him destitute. The rabbi took from his own substance to save the man. The man begged his forgiveness, and asked what he could do to restore the rabbi's reputation.

"Take a feather pillow," the rabbi instructed. "Now, cut it open, and spread those feathers to the wind. Wait a day, and go and collect every feather."

"That's impossible," the man responded.

"And so it is impossible to undo the harm done by malicious gossip."

I beg and urge you all, to think long and hard before either repeating or believing nasty comments one person makes about another here or elsewhere. How many of these things are really misunderstandings, miscommunications, or just mistakes? And how sure are you that the poster is the one telling the truth? Please do no listen to or believe gossip. We all fail in this from time to time, but gossip can do a lot of harm.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

Barb, I'm greatly saddened that some people are trying to take advantage of the terrific service you provide to try and put down folks in the fan film "family."

There's always a risk when you put yourself in the public arena that someone will try to vent their hostility at an easy target. I've been in a couple of flame wars myself, but usually I'm too busy to spend my time and resources duking it out with people I just don't agree with.

I'd recommend continuing your guidelines regarding postings that don't fit in the mission of your site, but always remember that there are plenty of people with too much time on their hands and no positive ways to use it.

And Happy Holidays, Barb!

 

[Barbreader]

Happy Holidays, Randy. I figure they'll give up eventually when they realize their comments aren't being posted. (They did try again after I posted this... they may have signed it, though,... ) To be fair, many people have a hard time discriminating against a legitimate artistic critic and just some joker slamming people. As somebody who spends more time reading and listening to critics than watching the movies they talk about, I can say I enjoy reading a good critic. But given the time I put in , I'm ill prepared to figure out if the writers are really confused about what is and is not commenting as a film critic, or just thinks I don't know the difference.

And even the most mildly put comments that try to encourage addressing a film's shortcomings can be painful to the filmmaker who worked hard. But if he or she is making another film, at least they give that filmmaker the OPTION of addressing the issues raised.

It's tricky. But then, you know that!

 

[Loken]

Barb:

So here are my two suggestions. Take them as merely my humble opinion. I just went through a site re-design for a blog I write, so been there, done that.

1) Get away from a black website. People do this all the time and it is neither attractive, nor easily readable.

2) Move from Blogger (which I use for my personal blogs) to Word Press (which I use for my professional blogs). For just that reason, one is for more professional sites.

Here are my three blogs:

1) The Star Trek Prop, Costume & Auction Blog (Blogspot using a standard template)

Updated 1-2 a week. About the hobby of collecting screen used props & costumes.

2) Apocalypse40K (Blogspot using an after-market theme)

Updated daily and will eventual become a money maker.

3) Propworx (Word Press using an after-market theme)

For my business.


Check out each and see how each delivers a specific amount of information.

I am happy to help if you need it.

Alec

 

[Barbreader]

Thank you, Alex. I will look over your websites. I'm in too much of a crunch to do a complete overhall right now, but I do have to do a complete overhall at some some. Frankly, I wasn't thinking of staying with a blog site at all at that time, I imagined a website with a central page which branched off, perhaps with a choice of ways to branch...
Time Line branches
Live Action/Animation/etc. branches
Drama/comedy branches...

At one time I thought you'd pick how how in the review scale you wanted included, but the rate of reviewing makes that option... well, not useful.

In the end, at the last clicking choice, once you had a list that fit your choices, when you picked a film family to read about and watch, you always wound up on the same page about the production that fit your set of choices.

But I have NO IDEA how to do that.

I will look over your blogs, and I thank you for your offer of help. Longer term, I will take you up on it... although doing a total reorganization at the moment is too much.

I chose the black because it's the color of outer space. If you look at my other blogs, you'll see none of them are black:

This blog is about my rental apartment:
http://columbiacondo2br2bathnyny.blogspot.com/ . (mostly green). This is a commercial use of the blog so that people can look at the apartment on line, and if it's absolutely NOT what they want, save themselves a trip. I only put up the photos of the apartment itself when I am showing it, but I leave up the pictures of the condo all the time.

This is the personal opinion blog I was doing when I got sidetracked and starting listing Star Trek Fan Films ... (thinking there were 50 or 60 of them, and after I listed and reviewed them, I'd get back to my life with only having to update it a few times a year...) http://readerswritings.blogspot.com/ . It includes stuff like what is a common law approach v. a code law approach, stuff that just makes people's political blood boil, but strangely, didn't get NEARLY the reaction that I get from listing Star Trek Fan Films! (Why do conservatives who usually hate the French want the courts to run the French way, where court only apply the law, they do not make the law, instead of the traditional American and English way where courts make the law, and legislatures just modify it?.) This is mostly white.

As you can see, neither bog is black. They are not set in outer space. Neither has a spinning globe tracker which shows where people are visiting from around the planet, either.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

Actually, I like the black not just because of the reference to space but because it's easier to use colors in text (unless they're dark as well). I also have no problem with the size of your text (some places--not to mention the Star Trek Magazine--run by younguns put their text in at 7 point type, and as a grup, I have a hard time reading them since I'm allergic to Retinox 5.)

So have any of our comments helped you, Barb? What specific topics have we not touched on that you'd like our input on? Let us know!

 

[Barbreader]

Randy, it's given me grist for my mill, which is always helpful. For now, I am going the quick and easy route, when I have time, of creating Star Trek Reviewed - TV and Movies, which was the choice of several names I suggested (and one I liked better, the CBS and Paramount one, which somebody else suggested). I didn't just post this here, I got feedback in a few places, and the - TV and Movies came in first or tied for first every time. It's just that I'm am literally out of space for anything in some groups, and so I have to do it quick and dirty. The good thing is that once I've freed up what should be a total of close to 100 slots between what I've done and what I plan, I should be good to go for at least two or three more years.

I don't know how long I really want to do this, or even how useful the website would be if it linked to, say 2000 fan films instead of somewhere in the 500-700 range. At what point is it too much? The truth is I've recently automated certain functions so I am notified when most known filmmakers post new films, and with a few more steps that part of the work by known filmmakers will be done for me by computer. Still done by hand, finding new filmmakers. Classifying films remains completely subjective. I have films clearly making reference to TOS people and tech, but where everyone is in TNG uniforms. I have to just ask the filmmaker what their intent is. So, it's still a lot of work.

Anyway, for now, I can't process my "Stuff that has been found but not sorted" list because I have NO PLACE TO PUT IT if it falls into one of the 'full' groups. I have one or two slots for most stuff so if one of my known filmmakers with no films releases a film, I should be able to handle that, but if three or five of them do, ... well, it could be err... bad and ugly.

A disproportionate number of illustrations do have black backgrounds, and I like the way they just blend into the website. I have to admit that if this were a commercial website, I'd probably NOT use black.

But I'm just not working on that right now. But I'm delighted that I got this input, so that as I figure out where I'm going, I have some guidance.

If you had told me six months ago I'd find a way to automate much of my checking for new films, I'd have thought you a cockeyed optimist. One idea leads to another... so where we go from here... Ya never know!

BTW, for anyone who is interested, Kirok L'Stok is again doing the 12 Trek Days of Christmas this year... http://twelvedays2011.blogspot.com/

 

[The Trekster]

How about

Star Trek Reviewed - Network and Paramount

??

 

[Barbreader]

How about
Star Trek Reviewed - Network and Paramount
??

I like it, but I'm going with what won the polls I posted in three places, at least for now. I sincerely hope that when I do a major reorganization this will all be useful.

 

[The Trekster]

How about
Star Trek Reviewed - Network and Paramount
??

I like it, but I'm going with what won the polls I posted in three places, at least for now. I sincerely hope that when I do a major reorganization this will all be useful.

I checked out your site. Just some honest feedback, I found it really hard to navigate from a casual 'just having a look around' kind of way. Don't take that the wrong way, I know how hard it is to make even a simple web site, let alone doing all the research needed for the amount of info you've got up there. You must really love this stuff!

But yeah, I don't envy you if you're going to try and reorganize such a behemoth of a site.

Good luck!

 

[Barbreader]

I have links to something on the order of 700 films there. I do the best I can with my limited knowledge. I have three indexes, one of which, the one which only cover major film groups, is almost NEVER accessed, and is slated for the dumpster. The most used is the Table Of Contents (and it's abridged dopplegager in the right column) followed by the Index. If you want to see a beautifully laid out website which covers only select TOS, TAS, and TOS movie era films, I strongly urge you to look at Orion Press. http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

The actual URL for the Fan Films page is:
http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/fanfilms/index.html