Star Trek Prime Universe Megafranchise

[BigJake]

Or, alternately, Nemesis established the floor for 'Star Trek fans' who can be reliably expected to show up to anything with 'Trek' in the title.

... and whoever else they can drag out with them. (I was one of those... )

As ever, the 'fans' are seldom enough to warrant more than a second-thought, business-wise.

The "fans" seem to be good for a pretty big chunk of domestic box office for any half-decent Trek film, which I wouldn't sneeze at. (After all there's a multiplier effect; it is the fans who go to multiple viewings in a day, who drag out any friends and family they can find, and so on.) But of course it takes more than that.

 

[The Doctor]

As ever, the 'fans' are seldom enough to warrant more than a second-thought, business-wise.

The "fans" seem to be good for a pretty big chunk of domestic box office for any half-decent Trek film, which I wouldn't sneeze at. (After all there's a multiplier effect; it is the fans who go to multiple viewings in a day, who drag out any friends and family they can find, and so on.) But of course it takes more than that.

Nah, they'll show up regardless. Sneeze away.

How else could they summon up enough rage to complain about the movie on the Internet. Even those uber fans who 'never saw it' saw it at least twice.

Even I hate-watched Enterprise all the way to the end. And I saw Nemesis twice in the theaters.

 

[BigJake]

Even I hate-watched Enterprise all the way to the end. And I saw Nemesis twice in the theaters.

Heh. Couldn't manage either of those myself...

 

[The Doctor]

Even I hate-watched Enterprise all the way to the end. And I saw Nemesis twice in the theaters.

Heh. Couldn't manage either of those myself...

Enterprise had its moments. It was damn sight more entertaining than Voyager.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Even I hate-watched Enterprise all the way to the end. And I saw Nemesis twice in the theaters.

Heh. Couldn't manage either of those myself...

Same here. I eventually saw "Nemesis" on DVD. Once. Never watched it again. I only got around to watching five or six episodes of ENT.

 

[Set Harth]

I think he was pretty solidly a second tier hero.

How so? He's kind of Marvel's version of Batman in a way. Maybe I'm biased because I was into his comics as a kid and even had an Iron Man doll. ( I know, gender roles and everything, I'm supposed to call it an "action figure", but fuck it, it was a doll. )

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think he was pretty solidly a second tier hero.

How so? He's kind of Marvel's version of Batman in a way. Maybe I'm biased because I was into his comics as a kid and even had an Iron Man doll. ( I know, gender roles and everything, I'm supposed to call it an "action figure", but fuck it, it was a doll. )

Yeah, he's on Marvel's A list. Any character that's had a solo book as long as Iron Man is "A list". The B list would be guys like Sub-Mariner, Captain Marvel, Ms Marvel or She Hulk. Characters who get a solo book for a while that eventually get canceled. The X-Men were a B and even C list title back in the 60s and early 70s.

 

[BigJake]

It may depend on what period of his "career" we're talking about. Iron Man was certainly relatively obscure -- or so it seemed to me -- when I was a kid buying comics in the Eighties and the X-Men ruled the racks, and he was never one of the names people later bandied about as the potential star of a major film franchise until he had one.

However one alphabetizes him, Iron Man / Tony Stark of course has the much more important virtue of being a genuinely interesting character (to what I would argue is actually a much greater degree than Batman / Bruce Wayne). Which is the take-away for me from the story of his recent rise to prominence.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It may depend on what period of his "career" we're talking about. Iron Man was certainly relatively obscure -- or so it seemed to me -- when I was a kid buying comics in the Eighties and the X-Men ruled the racks, and he was never one of the names people later bandied about as the potential star of a major film franchise until he had one.

However one alphabetizes him, Iron Man / Tony Stark of course has the much more important virtue of being a genuinely interesting character (to what I would argue is actually a much greater degree than Batman / Bruce Wayne). Which is the take-away for me from the story of his recent rise to prominence.

He was doing okay in the Seventies and Eighties. Michelinie, Romita, Layton and O'Neil kept things interesting, especially introducing elements like Tony's alcoholism and characters like Jim Rhodes. I recall it being one of the better superhero books of that era.

The wiki shows an Iron Man film in development as early as 1990.

 

[BigJake]

The wiki shows an Iron Man film in development as early as 1990.

And quite the nearly two-decade saga it would appear to have been. But the voracious Internet gossip machine of today didn't exist then, and if word of that leaked into the public sphere most of us weren't aware of it.

But the Almighty WikiPedia captures my recollection of the pre-Downey days pretty well:

According to associate producer Jeremy Latcham, "we went after about 30 writers and they all passed", saying they were uninterested in the project due to both the relative obscurity of Iron Man and being a production solely by Marvel.

Looking at the story they lay out there, that seems to have been basically the problem: there wasn't a critical mass of people to bring together, both because of various issues of timing and because Iron Man just wasn't that high a priority.

In retrospect this proves to have been providential, I think. We were spared a crappy low-budget Iron Man; Nicolas Cage as Iron Man; Tom Cruise acting and directing as Iron Man vs. MODOK (who, I'm sorry, dumbest villain ever); and Iron Man Battles His Father before we got to Favreau and the current vision. That's a lot of bullets dodged right there.

 

[Relayer1]

I only got around to watching five or six episodes of ENT.

Ignore seasons one, two and three completely.

Watch all of season four.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The wiki shows an Iron Man film in development as early as 1990.

And quite the nearly two-decade saga it would appear to have been. But the voracious Internet gossip machine of today didn't exist then, and if word of that leaked into the public sphere most of us weren't aware of it.

But the Almighty WikiPedia captures my recollection of the pre-Downey days pretty well:

According to associate producer Jeremy Latcham, "we went after about 30 writers and they all passed", saying they were uninterested in the project due to both the relative obscurity of Iron Man and being a production solely by Marvel.

Looking at the story they lay out there, that seems to have been basically the problem: there wasn't a critical mass of people to bring together, both because of various issues of timing and because Iron Man just wasn't that high a priority.

In retrospect this proves to have been providential, I think. We were spared a crappy low-budget Iron Man; Nicolas Cage as Iron Man; Tom Cruise acting and directing as Iron Man vs. MODOK (who, I'm sorry, dumbest villain ever); and Iron Man Battles His Father before we got to Favreau and the current vision. That's a lot of bullets dodged right there.

I think 99% of DC and Marvel's superheroes are obscure to the majority of the public including writers in the industry. Once you get past Superman, X-Men,Spider-Man and Batman the recognition factor begins to fade. Once you get past Wonder Woman and the Hulk it's gone all together. Interest usually spikes after a successful film and a few bad ones come out. So we dodged a bullet for sure in the 90s.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I only got around to watching five or six episodes of ENT.

Ignore seasons one, two and three completely.

Watch all of season four.

I've seen bits and pieces of season four. I wasn't impressed.

 

[Relayer1]

I liked it, but I am not a fan of the first three seasons...

 

[Nerys Myk]

The fourth season was pure, unadulterated, hardcore fanwank. I felt dirty after each episode.

 

[Relayer1]

The fourth season was pure, unadulterated, hardcore fanwank. I felt dirty after each episode.

But you kept on watching, didn't you ?

 

[The Wormhole]

The fourth season was pure, unadulterated, hardcore fanwank. I felt dirty after each episode.

Personally, that's why the fourth season is my favourite.

 

[drt]

I think he was pretty solidly a second tier hero.

How so? He's kind of Marvel's version of Batman in a way. Maybe I'm biased because I was into his comics as a kid and even had an Iron Man doll. ( I know, gender roles and everything, I'm supposed to call it an "action figure", but fuck it, it was a doll. )

Yeah, he's on Marvel's A list. Any character that's had a solo book as long as Iron Man is "A list". The B list would be guys like Sub-Mariner, Captain Marvel, Ms Marvel or She Hulk. Characters who get a solo book for a while that eventually get canceled. The X-Men were a B and even C list title back in the 60s and early 70s.

I'm probably spliting hairs a lot finer than you are, I'd consider your "B list" as "D list" at best - but I was thinking more in terms of general populace awareness.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How so? He's kind of Marvel's version of Batman in a way. Maybe I'm biased because I was into his comics as a kid and even had an Iron Man doll. ( I know, gender roles and everything, I'm supposed to call it an "action figure", but fuck it, it was a doll. )

Yeah, he's on Marvel's A list. Any character that's had a solo book as long as Iron Man is "A list". The B list would be guys like Sub-Mariner, Captain Marvel, Ms Marvel or She Hulk. Characters who get a solo book for a while that eventually get canceled. The X-Men were a B and even C list title back in the 60s and early 70s.

I'm probably spliting hairs a lot finer than you are, I'd consider your "B list" as "D list" at best - but I was thinking more in terms of general populace awareness.

When it comes to "general populace awareness" any character who isn't Superman, Spider-Man or Batman is on the B list of lower. Most are on the "who's that?" list.

 

[F. King Daniel]

No superhero whose last movie made $1.3 billion is anything but A-list. $700,000 Superman (or rather, the bods at DC) wishes he was Iron Man right now.