I think it extremely unlikely that either of these hypotheses are correct.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I think it extremely unlikely that either of these hypotheses are correct.
As do I. But one of the fun things about the Founders is that, once they're in play, everyone's suspicions get ratcheted up to 11.
While I do have some reservations about Bev, Riker, and Worf in this ep, I don't think it would be appropriate to air this publicly at this juncture -- because Terry Trek does so much that is commendable and because there are currently no plans for more Terry Trek, now is the time to show our steadfast support for Terry Trek, which like Gilroy Wars, might in some small way be important for the continuation of the human race.
Oh sure. But you know some people won't be able to resist.
And, seriously, spelling out Titan is only two more letters. That's what I'll use if it comes to pass.
I think it's literally impossible in the 25th century having an unwanted pregnancy (I mean, it probably is today too if you have access to contraception and morning-after pills). It can't be just an "accident".
I’m sure you’re absolutely right there is a way to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy.
There’s a huge difference between accidental and unwanted though.
Yes Beverly didn’t mean to get pregnant but it certainly sounds out like once she discovered she was she decided she wanted it.
Thats fine, her choice.
I tend to think that the hallmark of a good character is one who you can understand the choices they make, even if you don't agree with it.
Beverly's decisions, as explained in this episode, fit the bill for me. We may not agree with how she handled it, but her reasoning at least is sound. It's based on her character's history.
My point is, how the heck it can be an "accidental" pregnancy? With all the contraceptive methods surely available in the 24th century, one has to actively work to get pregnant. I can accept that she wanted to kept the baby. It's obviously her right. The "accident" part leaves me dumbfounfed.
I see it as the same way as it happened to Sisko.
Regarding Picard and Crusher calling it off 5 times...
Who's to say the other 4 times didn't occur during all the years they were on the Enterprise-E? Between FIRST CONTACT and NEMESIS, there's 6 years of time passed... plenty of time for that rocky relationship to be on and off 5 times. Not to mention, we have no idea if they decided to begin one right after the Enterprise-D crashed, and that's over a year and a half between GENERATIONS and FIRST CONTACT.
Who's to say the other 4 times didn't occur during all the years they were on the Enterprise-E? Between FIRST CONTACT and NEMESIS, there's 6 years of time passed... plenty of time for that rocky relationship to be on and off 5 times. Not to mention, we have no idea if they decided to begin one right after the Enterprise-D crashed, and that's over a year and a half between GENERATIONS and FIRST CONTACT.
Any psychologist will be able to tell you that there is no "accidental forgetfulness".
And then Beverly, unlike Sisko, WORKED there in the sickbay. And knowing that she had to go on a romantic vacation with Picard she "forgot" the precautions? Seriously?
What do you mean?
Up the long ladder was, in part, to do with bodily autonomy and touched upon things like abortion. An unmade sequel to The Offspring would have dealt with the same issues.
A lot of discussion around Beverly and her pregnancy is dancing around that same issue. (No such thing as accidental pregnancy in 24th Century etc)
In terms of other aspects of Treks history, and its awkwardness around Transhumanism in particular, have concepts such as the Eugenics war wired in.
Here in the real world, one of the primary names associated with ‘family planning’ or Termination Of Pregnancy, is Marie Stopes. Marie Stopes was a Eugenicist, and it is alleged that one of the motivators for her founding of her clinics was to lower the birth rate in the ‘lower classes’. That’s a real World Series of events tied into this concept of Eugenics in Trek.
Then there is WW3 and the fact that a population would have been needed, and that would likely have wrought great societal change around such things, and we know there is the great attitude overhang from this period in humanity and the federation.
Then we have story after story about where sentience begins and ends, and nature vs nurture, even to the point where Picard himself is at the heart of it now he is no longer ‘born of woman’ as it were.
Meanwhile, also in Trek, we have seen developing babies beamed from one mother to another (Kira and the O’Briens) and it raises the question — in a century where *all* naturally occurring pregnancies are likely viable, is this the form Termination takes? Unwanted pregnancy simply beamed into a woman who does want a child? It’s certainly apparent that *no* pregnant Trek character has ever considered Termination (which is one of the things we dance around talking about Jack) and why is that? What is the sociological reason underlying that shift from attitudes of the last forty or fifty years at least?
Stories and character arcs that touch on it, but rarely focus on it, are *numerous* in Trek.
Perhaps that element of the story would be brave to be addressed — Voyager has thus far been the bravest in that regard.
Because it’s the unsaid thing hanging in the air when some people are yelling about Beverly having Picards child without his knowledge, and to an extent possibly without his consent — something which seems to be a thing at times in the 24th Century.
Never mind Riker, Picard needs a drink with Worf. Tea perhaps.
edit: To expand on the idea, are thee a rack of transporter buffers somewhere containing pregnancies suspended in time, waiting for their parents to claim them? 24th Century IVF and frozen embryos. Who can claim them? When would they expire through pattern degradation?
Trek does allegory and themes, at least, it used to… and it seems to be touching on it again.
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I see your points. But between contraception and termination there are other intermediate methods, such as the morning-after pill (which *is not an abortion method*). And who knows how many other methods that exist in the 24th century that simply prevent a woman from getting pregnant after intercourse.
So Beverly, who is a doctor, didn't take precautions before, she didn't take precautions afterwards and yet during the conversation she presents the pregnancy as an unpredictable surprise.
I don't want to imply that she "ambushed" Picard to get pregnant with him, but what are the alternatives? That she had a episode of very selective dementia?
And that is a whole bunch of drama which may overall be too much for Picard to handle, but is absolutely present in the events as presented. It will be interesting to see if, and how, it is handled. Unless Jack turns out to be something else entirely — Trek has form after all, look at poor old Papa and Mama Sisko.
I don't think it will be mentioned or even talked about again - they have established that Picard is his father and how. It will now shift to that relationship.
I think the disconnect is that Picard is a show that largely disregards what we know about behaviours and societies in this period and is just written as if all happens today. So "how would Crusher actually get pregnant given what we know about 25th century technology" isn't a question either the writers or actors seem interested in even hinting at.
The way it is phrased in DS9 (“one of us forgot their injection this month”), implies contraception is not something you think or need to think of in the moment.
It trains you to not think about it on a daily basis.
When you are not sexually active you might get sloppy or drop the injections altogether but still don’t think about it that one time. And Beverly might be a Doctor, but she can still be wrong about things. Maybe she didn’t think that she even could get pregnant anymore?
A million things possible, but twenty years later nothing of that matters anymore or would come up in that conversation we just saw.
It trains you to not think about it on a daily basis.
When you are not sexually active you might get sloppy or drop the injections altogether but still don’t think about it that one time. And Beverly might be a Doctor, but she can still be wrong about things. Maybe she didn’t think that she even could get pregnant anymore?
A million things possible, but twenty years later nothing of that matters anymore or would come up in that conversation we just saw.
But even *today* morning-after pills *exist*. It's more "how would Crusher actually get pregnant given what we know about 18th century technology"