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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"

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The one thing that really bugged me is Beverly's absolute and utter certainty that she absolutely did the best thing. Jean-Luc led a dangerous life. So? Should the wives of policemen and soldiers hide their children from their fathers and disappear for twenty years too? There wasn't a moment of doubt or regret in the conversation she had with Jean-Luc. It felt a little too much honestly.

Yup, this is a real problem. As some have noted here, it’s particularly egregious given that Beverly has taken Jack out onto the front lines into extreme danger, while Jean-Luc was basically retired at his vineyard for however many years. Who would he really have been safer with? Her framing it as some kind of PTSD in which she seemed to outright blame Picard both for the death of her husband and, more inexplicably, for Wesley becoming a Traveller and evidently never bothering to stop home for a visit (unless someone is holding a wedding reception) is …a stretch; and not in keeping with anything we saw of their relationship in the past. It’s messy messy, but I’m willing to set it aside and see how the story and character dynamics unfold.
 
Yup, this is a real problem. As some have noted here, it’s particularly egregious given that Beverly has taken Jack out onto the front lines into extreme danger, while Jean-Luc was basically retired at his vineyard for however many years. Who would he really have been safer with? Her framing it as some kind of PTSD in which she seemed to outright blame Picard both for the death of her husband and, more inexplicably, for Wesley becoming a Traveller and evidently never bothering to stop home for a visit (unless someone is holding a wedding reception) is …a stretch; and not in keeping with anything we saw of their relationship in the past. It’s messy messy, but I’m willing to set it aside and see how the story and character dynamics unfold.

So far, anything raised in an episode has been addressed to a certain extent in the next. Clumsy writing would have meant the exchange between Beverly and Jean-Luc either not happening, or being light. (And likely directly presenting him as in some way responsible) Instead it’s a full, well acted scene, where the logic of each position holds well enough for the story to unfold. (Crushers litany of events that literally happened while she was pregnant, making it hold much more water than it would have otherwise - there’s even a hint that she was pregnant during the events of Nemesis itself ‘when you were sent to personally negotiate with the praetor’ could be read as the events of Nemesis) Neither ‘wins’ the argument, but neither has to for the story to work — it’s important that the argument is *had* though, and shown.

The same is true of the situation with Riker — enough is shown, and has been shown, and it ties up enough neatly *for now* until further things are dealt with. That Picard does to Riker what he had accused Beverly of earlier in the episode does not have neon signs all over it, barely even a lingering shot on Rikers face, but it’s in the performances and in the script, and it makes sense. If members of the audience miss it, that can’t be helped. Disco spoon feeds emotions, force feeds them even, on a regular basis — TNG does not do that so much (see: Data at the end of Offspring, Riker at the end of BOBW part one, so on and so forth) instead it is more subtle unless the story really benefits. (See again, the Offspring, and the Admirals speech) It works, it’s there, and *so far* nothing has really cheated the audience.
There’s even enough around why Shaw is/isn’t an asshole. All in the script and performance, without going off on one.
I do think the de-aged flashback is a bit off — but I need to rewatch the scenes with the Rikers in S1 to work out if it’s implied Picard was still close enough to the Trois, and to work out where Picard was in *his* life when that happened. It hangs together though, just. I do not know if I fully respect these ‘flashbacks to give you context’ as a flourish that works — last week, Jack being a naughty boy, this week, Picard talking about fatherhood with New Dad Riker. It’s a bit wobbly. Did love seeing Riker talk about parenthood, and Deanna’s call, both perfectly pitched, but better if it had not been in the bar I think, and Deanna had been present. (Sirtis is easier to de-age for a start, and the lighting on board ship would have been easier for digital de-aging than that of the bar. Which didn’t hide the makeup as well as I think Frakes had hoped.)
 
Yup, this is a real problem. As some have noted here, it’s particularly egregious given that Beverly has taken Jack out onto the front lines into extreme danger, while Jean-Luc was basically retired at his vineyard for however many years. Who would he really have been safer with? Her framing it as some kind of PTSD in which she seemed to outright blame Picard both for the death of her husband and, more inexplicably, for Wesley becoming a Traveller and evidently never bothering to stop home for a visit (unless someone is holding a wedding reception) is …a stretch; and not in keeping with anything we saw of their relationship in the past. It’s messy messy, but I’m willing to set it aside and see how the story and character dynamics unfold.

Let's assume 2385 for the massacre on Mars (I can't remember the exact date but I'm a year here or there) and that it was 2380 that JLP and Beverley tried to make a go of things. That leaves 5 years from getting pregnant to Picard giving up in despair.

Assuming he was up to his old tricks between those years then she was keeping Jack safe, in theory, after which Picard is a broken shell of the man he once was - would you introduce your kid to someone who is in that poor a mental health space? Would fuck both of them up.

Beverley was probably also feeling just horrendously guilty by then too due to keeping the secret so it makes it all much harder.

By the time she has Jack on the front lines (and it probably wasn't always as messy as the situation they are in now) he was much older and, judging by his criminal past, has gotten himself into plenty of scrapes anyway.

Assuming he is 22ish and he left school at 18 he could have done 3 years of pratting about getting into trouble as a rebel while Beverley was doing her Medicine sans frontiers thing and she had to take him along with her to keep him from getting himself killed/arrested
 
So far, anything raised in an episode has been addressed to a certain extent in the next. Clumsy writing would have meant the exchange between Beverly and Jean-Luc either not happening, or being light. (And likely directly presenting him as in some way responsible) Instead it’s a full, well acted scene, where the logic of each position holds well enough for the story to unfold. (Crushers litany of events that literally happened while she was pregnant, making it hold much more water than it would have otherwise - there’s even a hint that she was pregnant during the events of Nemesis itself ‘when you were sent to personally negotiate with the praetor’ could be read as the events of Nemesis) Neither ‘wins’ the argument, but neither has to for the story to work — it’s important that the argument is *had* though, and shown.
You know, a phrase from Beverly like: "You know Jean-Luc, in hindsight maybe I should have done things a little differently, but what's done is done" would have been enough for me.

Instead, what deeply irritates me is her complete and rock-hard certainty that she's absolutely done the best thing under the circumstances, including disappearing from her friends for twenty years. Not a shadow of doubt or regret in the entire conversation. Humanly speaking, seeing the pain on Picard's face, how the hell can anyone be so certain and adamant?
 
You know, a phrase from Beverly like: "You know Jean-Luc, in hindsight maybe I should have done things a little differently, but what's done is done" would have been enough for me.

Instead, what deeply irritates me is her complete and rock-hard certainty that she's absolutely done the best thing under the circumstances, including disappearing from her friends for twenty years. Not a shadow of doubt or regret in the entire conversation. Humanly speaking, seeing the pain on Picard's face, how the hell can anyone be so certain and adamant?

It’s kinda consistent with her as a character tho - I honestly and sincerely doubt she ever cared about Jean-Luc as much as he cared about her. For whatever reasons. The fact that his clear pain now doesn’t phase her because she’s totally convinced she was absolutely right in keeping his child away from him is consistent with this and how unhealthy their entire relationship is. For both parties. Jean-Luc can be a stubborn and pompous jerk and quite impossible to deal with at times, especially when he is also convinced that he is right, he has the same stubborn streak as she does - but she should at least have had the basic respect to tell the man that she had his child. If she had then asked him to stay out of the kid’s life he would have done so. It would have been extremely painful for him but he would have done it if this had been her wish. All she would have had to do was to be honest and explain the situation and her fears etc. But at least he would have known that there’s a child. She didn’t even give him a CHANCE.

And, who knows, if she had told Jack that his father knows he exists he might have wanted to visit him after all. You know, on that super dangerous vineyard he was on where he was a constant target of possible assassination, what a horrible thought, losing her son to that dangerous universe in which he ends up picking grapes with his dad on a vineyard in France. /sarcasm

Also… is anyone still talking about Laris? I mean this is going to have an impact on a whole lot of things since we all know that Jean-Luc and his son will create a bond in the next few episodes and that they won’t stay as distant as they are now. I realize Matalas clearly wants for us to forget Laris exists by shoving her out of the way after like five minutes in the first episode, but I for one haven’t forgotten that she exists. And neither should Jean-Luc. I mean. Just saying.
 
You know, a phrase from Beverly like: "You know Jean-Luc, in hindsight maybe I should have done things a little differently, but what's done is done" would have been enough for me.

Instead, what deeply irritates me is her complete and rock-hard certainty that she's absolutely done the best thing under the circumstances, including disappearing from her friends for twenty years. Not a shadow of doubt or regret in the entire conversation. Humanly speaking, seeing the pain on Picard's face, how the hell can anyone be so certain and adamant?

I am betting that comes later. As will Picard saying something similar about making time for *them*. Which might get awkward when Bev meets his new Irish Romulan girlfriend, unless they end up a throuple.
 
You know, a phrase from Beverly like: "You know Jean-Luc, in hindsight maybe I should have done things a little differently, but what's done is done" would have been enough for me.

Instead, what deeply irritates me is her complete and rock-hard certainty that she's absolutely done the best thing under the circumstances, including disappearing from her friends for twenty years. Not a shadow of doubt or regret in the entire conversation. Humanly speaking, seeing the pain on Picard's face, how the hell can anyone be so certain and adamant?

All of this is so true! Not a shred of contrition from her. It was especially strange paired with the fact that he just flew across the galaxy to save her and Jack on her request and then she doesn’t even say thank you. But then tells him that he’s the only one she can trust.

Then she sounds especially harsh in the way she tells him Jack chose not to contact him.

I feel like the writers’ theme for the ep was “everybody closest to Picard is now royally pissed at him” and they just had to make the interactions play into that, even if doesn’t make sense.
 
I disagree with this notion that Beverly deliberately endangered Jack as a child. We see no evidence of that. We know he went to school on Earth, so we know he was not at Beverly's side at every moment of his life. All we know is that Jack, as an adult, has chosen to follow in his mother's footsteps.
 
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I disagree with this notion that Beverly deliberately endangered Jack as a child. We see no evidence of that. We know he went to school on Earth, so we know he was not at Beverly's side at every moment of his life. All we know is that Jack, as an adult, has chosen to follow in his mother's footsteps.
Exactly.

...And then after he was an adult and chose that life, she still decided not to tell Jean-Luc that he had a son. :)
 
I mean she had her teenage son with her on the ENTERPRISE. How many friggin times were they attacked? How many times did crew on the ship die as a result of said attack?

(and yes I know the Enterprise 'allowed' for families to be onboard), but if you really want to get into talking about 'danger'.) What do you think was a safer environment? The USS Enterprise or a Starfleet Medical Facility/town on Earth?

I don't think it's uncharacteristic to think she had this other son with her at times while carrying out her refugee doctor work.
 
I mean she had her teenage son with her on the ENTERPRISE. How many friggin times were they attacked? How many times did crew on the ship die as a result of said attack?

(and yes I know the Enterprise 'allowed' for families to be onboard), but if you really want to get into talking about 'danger'.) What do you think was a safer environment? The USS Enterprise or a Starfleet Medical Facility/town on Earth?

I don't think it's uncharacteristic to think she had this other son with her at times while carrying out her refugee doctor work.
People change over time. For all intents and purposes, Beverly did lose her first son ( and husband) to Starfleet. If she associates Starfleet with those losses, I can see her choosing to distance herself from that environment. Sometimes people do irrational and illogical things where their children are concerned. I believe even Sarek of Vulcan once said that his "logic faltered" where his son was involved. I mean I'm not saying I entirely agree with Beverly's decision given the information at hand, but I'm not going to condemn her based on the information that I don't have. I totally believe that, rightly or wrongly, she believed she was doing the right thing for Jack.
 
How convenient. "I kept your son's existence from you for two decades for safety, and then when he chose to live a dangerous life with me I figured if he didn't want to tell you I wasn't gonna either."?
Convenient or not, that is the case.
 
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