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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x02 - "Disengage"

Engage!


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Hell, there were plenty of complaints about the violence in Picard S1. If it had been Elnor rather than Worf, I doubt it would have been received the same. Similarly, if this was Disco or early Picard, I doubt so many be defending Shaw's characterisation.

To be fair worf has killed before even in tng. This was a bit more gratuitous than I would have liked but it is what it is. At least they were all armed. 7 of 9 just killed a unarmed women in season one that had her hands up trying to surrender. That's much worse.
 
I just explained that the word „slut“ has become socially eclectic in usage and the first thing people do is to throw definitions from a very old dictionary at me. No, in 2023 that is not the definition of the word „slut“.

The stove is hot. You shouldn’t touch it again. Maybe you’re too young and hip for the room. You’ve been told twice now. Comments to PM. Do not continue to try to justify yourself here.
 
During the 'one hour' Vadic gave them, I started wondering when Riker was going to get up to his old tactical Macguyvering- remember during the show's run the reputation he was developing for unorthodox strategy and off-the-cuff tactical genius? This was a great opportunity to circle back to that.

Never happened. Instead, we went with 'no plan whatsoever', clever or otherwise, until Picard is finally shaken out of his doldrums with the revelation that Jack might be his son. I'm still not completely sold on that.
 
During the 'one hour' Vadic gave them, I started wondering when Riker was going to get up to his old tactical Macguyvering- remember during the show's run the reputation he was developing for unorthodox strategy and off-the-cuff tactical genius? This was a great opportunity to circle back to that.

Never happened. Instead, we went with 'no plan whatsoever', clever or otherwise, until Picard is finally shaken out of his doldrums with the revelation that Jack might be his son. I'm still not completely sold on that.

It's not perfect but it's a story. Riker will probably show his chops soon enough. He did help picard to find Beverly. Each major character is supposed to get a episide to have their shining moments. Yeah i hope picards new awareness sticks with him. I was getting tired of him acting like the gracious old man. He's a leader not a follower.
 
I mean, none of them have talked to Crusher in 20 years. Her son is a criminal and for all they know she's gone down the criminal path in recent decades too. Crusher might be outright lying for her own nefarious purposes. Seska did as much by trying to trick Chakotay that she had his kid in Voyager.

Thiiiiis. I still have a hard time buying the idea that Bev would have somehow had a child with JL, either naturally or through medical shenanigans, and then never told him about it. Character-wise it just doesn't make a lick of sense.
 
No, I don't have a problem with it because I think Shaw's change made sense. And I don't see it a sudden about-face...As a Starfleet captain, he cannot be responsible for not saving decorated legends like Picard and Riker...But when it is revealed that Jack is not just some criminal, but the son of Picard, an Admiral too, the situation has changed...Shaw gets that so he let's Picard take charge.
I don't have a problem with Shaw being convinced to go help Picard and Riker. I don't think they used the best argument to convince Shaw, but I think it is just fine that he is convinced. My problem is when Picard says "admiral's orders" and Shaw reacts "what are you doing?". Which is a reaction that indicates that Shaw believes Picard has the authority to command the crew, which is contrary to the previous episode's entire plot. Only after this moment, and after Picard reveals that Jack is his son, does Shaw seem to warm up to rescuing Jack. That last part, I too am ok with because it seems clear that Shaw has some backstory that makes him more responsive to some father/son dynamics. I just don't like that Picard suddenly has the authority that he expressly did not in the previous episode, with no explanation. This is an actual, dictionary accurate definition of a plot hole. In itself a minor plot hole wouldn't be a big problem but they made it a major point of the previous episode and integral to Seven's story.

Will forces Jean-Luc and Shaw to make a decision by waking Beverly up to confirm who Jack is, against the wishes of the Titan's doctor. Seven pushes Shaw to rescue Jean-Luc and Will and then defies orders to capture Jack. Seems pretty pro-active to me.
Yeah, Riker does take one action at the very end. That was good. But I would have liked to see him do something active for the rest of the hour.

We literally saw Seven give Shaw everything the Starfleet database had on the relevant actors.
Hmm, I must have missed that. I will have to rewatch. But does anything come of it? Is there any followup? I don't remember.

They never describe it as "underpowered." You're reading more into the exploration vessel line that it actually conveys. He's not saying it's underpowered, he's saying the odds of the Titan surviving against such an absurdly over-powered enemy like the Shrike are lower than those of a dedicated combat vessel (such as, for example, whatever the 25th Century equivalent of the Defiant class would be).
I think he is "overly wary" (my words) of engaging even before they get the full scan of the Shrike. He may not say "underpowered" but that is the impression he gives. And yeah, fine, the Titan might not be a battleship like the Defiant, but my preference would be that all Starfleet vessels be Ent-D equivalent (powerful even though it was not designed as a fighter) - capable of standing up to most threats, and only backing off from overpowered threats (like a pair of D'deridex warships, or a Shrike). It just speaks to the general competence and tech level of Starfleet (in my mind).

...I rewatched it three times and the only time I felt the blur was from Raffi's perspective, which was obviously deliberate. Other than that, totally serviceable combat stunt work.

Yeah, I thought the fight scene was well done. I think it is "clear" (pun intended) that they obfuscated Worf's identity for the surprise reveal a few seconds later (and to allow the stuntman to do the work) but that the fight itself was visible.
 
Watched the ep on Prime last night, WORLD of difference compared to what originally aired on P+…! I’m actually upset that my enjoyment of the ep was ruined the first time because of the contrast/saturation issues, which took me out of it… Vadic is totally awesome imo; on her way to become one of the greatest ST villains! And Shaw…. Wow….. I’ve rarely seen someone do sarcasm so well..! The score was absolutely brilliant, and the final ‘no word, eye contact’ only shots between Picard and Beverly are beyond beautiful…!
 
It's an ok episode. It takes a bit too long to get to the point. So far it feels like a 10 cut of 1 TNG episode.
 
Oh, my heart still hurts when the D crashes. Such a gorgeous ship, she deserved more films.
I was devastated. They can never make a more beautiful ship, the E can never look as good! But then I saw FC and fell in love all over again, and found the E even nicer than the D :D
 
I
I don't have a problem with Shaw being convinced to go help Picard and Riker. I don't think they used the best argument to convince Shaw, but I think it is just fine that he is convinced. My problem is when Picard says "admiral's orders" and Shaw reacts "what are you doing?". Which is a reaction that indicates that Shaw believes Picard has the authority to command the crew, which is contrary to the previous episode's entire plot. Only after this moment, and after Picard reveals that Jack is his son, does Shaw seem to warm up to rescuing Jack. That last part, I too am ok with because it seems clear that Shaw has some backstory that makes him more responsive to some father/son dynamics. I just don't like that Picard suddenly has the authority that he expressly did not in the previous episode, with no explanation. This is an actual, dictionary accurate definition of a plot hole. In itself a minor plot hole wouldn't be a big problem but they made it a major point of the previous episode and integral to Seven's story.

When Picard issues his "Admiral's orders" they are in an urgent and dangerous situation and Shaw knows it just would not be possible for him to dispute it and convince his officers that Picard's actions are illegal. The lower ranking officers will just follow the Admiral's orders because he is technically the highest ranked person there. It's just not practical to try to debate the issue. It's also critical the senior personnel demonstrate unity to their subordinates. Plus, Shaw will probably be thinking that Picard must have a very good reason for taking over - they had been working together for a while at that point and Shaw's manner towards him had become more respectful. It is also possible Picard does have the legal authority to take over even though he is retired.

What happened at dinner is a different kettle of fish. Even if Picard does have the authority to instruct Shaw to alter the ship's course, Picard's presence on the Titan is not sanctioned by Starfleet and his order would have been illegal. Picard doesn't push it because he knows he can't; he has no leverage to do it and he'll get exposed in a dispute. Imo, it's a completely different situation and this was not a plot hole.
 
I think he is "overly wary" (my words) of engaging even before they get the full scan of the Shrike. He may not say "underpowered" but that is the impression he gives. And yeah, fine, the Titan might not be a battleship like the Defiant, but my preference would be that all Starfleet vessels be Ent-D equivalent (powerful even though it was not designed as a fighter) - capable of standing up to most threats, and only backing off from overpowered threats (like a pair of D'deridex warships, or a Shrike). It just speaks to the general competence and tech level of Starfleet (in my mind).

We know this isn't the case though. Starfleet vessels are not all designed to be taking an utter pounding damage wise, there's still a bit of mix of lighter designed and heavier designed vessels and there's no real hint that the Neo Connies are anything other than fairly mid tier ships like the Luna's before them.

The score was absolutely brilliant, and the final ‘no word, eye contact’ only shots between Picard and Beverly are beyond beautiful…!

The seen was probably the best "Show, don't tell" I've seen in years, and the first I can think of on TV in a while, it was quite refreshing.

I
When Picard issues his "Admiral's orders" they are in an urgent and dangerous situation and Shaw knows it just would not be possible for him to dispute it and convince his officers that Picard's actions are illegal. The lower ranking officers will just follow the Admiral's orders because he is technically the highest ranked person there. It's just not practical to try to debate the issue. It's also critical the senior personnel demonstrate unity to their subordinates. Plus, Shaw will probably be thinking that Picard must have a very good reason for taking over - they had been working together for a while at that point and Shaw's manner towards him had become more respectful. It is also possible Picard does have the legal authority to take over even though he is retired.

What happened at dinner is a different kettle of fish. Even if Picard does have the authority to instruct Shaw to alter the ship's course, Picard's presence on the Titan is not sanctioned by Starfleet and his order would have been illegal. Picard doesn't push it because he knows he can't; he has no leverage to do it and he'll get exposed in a dispute. Imo, it's a completely different situation and this was not a plot hole.

Shaw also seemed to have more infomation to hand in the crap situation. When it became outside of an area he felt comfortable in he's deffered to Admiral Picard (ret.) who at least has experience with rather low odds situations.
 
I enjoyed this one a fair bit. The problem is when you stop to actually analyse the plot, which is tropey and cliched as hell. It seems like Terry M’Talas (sorry, couldn’t resist!) is leaning into something of a “Trek’s Greatest Hits” (although not all of the elements are among Trek’s finest admittedly).

The Picard/son plot seems to be lifted from TWOK (and given the nod to “stealing a ship” and even the reference to Horner’s TSFS score i doubt that wasn’t intentional). It’s also been done before, rather poorly, in TNG’s own “Bloodlines”. Beverly sure as hell has a LOT of explaining to do next week. I’ve no idea what excuse she could have for ghosting Picard for twenty years and keeping all knowledge of his own son from him. That’s unconscionable in my view. Fair enough if Picard was some abusive monster she wanted to protect her son from, but…jeez. What was she thinking?

I have to call out the casting. Are we really meant to believe Jack is twenty years old? The actor looks like he’s pushing forty. We also need to know why he speaks with an English accent. Please tell me they don’t think accents are genetic? I’m looking forward to seeing where this goes, but I don’t have much confidence the answers will be satisfying. I’m still burned from last incoherent season where nothing made sense at all (so many things happened “just because!”).

Shaw had been toned down from last week and his position understandable and even logical, although his turnaround when he learns Jack is Picard’s son was too abrupt, as his earlier argument that 500 lives weren’t worth sacrificing for just a couple still stood I would have thought. Unless, perhaps Shaw had lost a son or something. The conflict was better done though. He’s more human and less hateful.

Amanda Plumber…no idea if I loved her or hated her performance. It could go either way for me. She’s almost like DS9’s MU Intendent without (thankfully, so far) the hypersexualisation. She could be fun, although this is maybe just too much campery for a villain. The creative team are still obsessed with creating another Khan, and this also strongly recalls and borrows from Nero and his ship (can’t remember its name right now) and Shinzon and the Schimitar. Subtlety is a fine art and there’s certainly no semblance of it here. But we’ll see how it goes.

The Raffi scenes dragged, frankly, and this plot seems to borrow from Into Darkness. It was just fantastic to see Worf again briefly even if his return felt so signposted it was hardly the surprise it aimed to be. I loved seeing a Ferengi again although the makeup left a lot to be desired. I’d increased my TV brightness settings so maybe that affected details like this, but the actor’s skin tone on his exposed lower face seemed notably different from the skin tone of the Ferengi head and ears. In other words, he totally looked like a dude with an appliance glued to his head. We need to bring Michael Westmore out of retirement.

Anyway, I enjoyed watching it more than it may sound. It’s just very cliched and pulpy thus far. My expectations are guarded, however, so I’ll just take it for what it is.
 
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Right, but 95% of most villains in the Star Trek universe get "one episode" or movie, and that's plenty to create substance and character. I'm just not a fan of the cackling, scene-chewing, maniacal, crazy-eyed baddies. This one was about as over-the-top annoying as it gets. Total turn off.

I very much agree with this, such ridiculous, badly written villains drive me up the wall.
 
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About Vadic:
“The people who dislike me are gamblers, low-level gangsters, the fathers of daughters everywhere — not vigilante bounty hunters willing to pick a fight with the Federation.”

Maybe i'm not entirely wrong about her being Jarok's daughter and her motive...:whistle:

Uh I think Jack meant to imply that he has been 'fully functional' (to borrow a phrase from his late Uncle Data) with many women, all of whom presumeably had fathers. So yes you are entirely wrong.
 
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