Star Trek Phase II/TMP: The Roads Not Taken

[Guest]

At this risk of hijacking the discussions of others, I have initiated this post.

Our subject: Star Trek Phase II to Star Trek The Motion Picture. I have often wondered where exactly Star Trek would have been today if Phase II had actually became a reality, or if not the new television series, what direction could Star Trek have taken after Star Trek The Motion Picture.

There are a few of us here who have fundemanetal problems with the direction that Star Trek took after TMP. I remember when the film premiered in the theater. I was kid, 11 years old, having been exposed to Star Trek via re-runs (They were on at 4pm every night on the local tv station).

The most memorable scene I remember is when Jim Kirk and Scott were inspecting the refit for the first time. But let me tell you, when the travel pod and faced Enterprise and we saw her her in all of her new-found glory, some of the crowd in the theater were on their feet cheering, some were crying. Myself, being such a youngster at the time, didn't know quite what to make of it, but that momment is permanently burned into my memory. That was the day I knew I was a fan of this phenomenon.

I missed seeing Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan in theater (possibly for good reasons) in 1982, but by 1983, I owned my first copy of the Star Fleet Technical Manual and a few other bits of technical fiction. It was that year, I became technical fiction fanatic. The time leading upto Star Trek III The Search for Spock was very exciting, and I have Aridas Sofia, Todd Guenther, and Geoff Mandel to name a few to thank for it. The material produced during the early eighties was what made Star Trek real for me. I could hold a set of Enterprise Class blueprints in my hands and marvel at how beautiful her new incarnation was.

1983, I joined the local chapter of Starfleet International (Alex do you remember this one?) the USS LaFayette NCC-1720, and quickly became The Chief Engineer. It allowed me to draw my own set of Enterprise Class plans with a few modifications ofcourse. . .

And then Star Trek III The Search for Spock came. I do not know about the rest of you but from that point on right to Star Trek VI I was numb from a sense that this road was not the road that should have been taken. We watched Spock die only to be re-animated by a artificially-created planet with an extremely eyebrow-raising pseudo-science to explain it, with Enterprise being the ultimate sacrifice, then we saw Jim Kirk and crew aboard a ship other than Enterprise save some whales, get an Enterprise back (but half her doors wouldn't open?), go off to find a false god (little-big man in a grey beard, how typical eh?) with the Spock's half-brother (didn't bill shatner and harve watch any animated episodes?) in command, and finally the last story of our heros being chocked-full of Shakespearian gobble-dee-gook, and in the original Klingon don't ya know?

And so it went, the last filmed adventure of the Jim Kirk and company now a part of history. That was 1991, and here we are wondering just what the hell was all of that back there? From Trek II right on upto 1991, my hunger for better Star Trek was left unsatiated. At least on screen. . .

The year is 2003, and Im still wondering how it could have been had Star Trek taken another direction after the brilliance that was The Motion Picture. So, after a much long-winded rant, I would like to hear others views on how Star Trek could have been.

Now, as always, I have a set of conditions that msut be adhered to for the opening discussion as well as for the discussions to follow.

1). We will assume that the original stories for Star Trek II - VI never came to be, thus eliminating "canonical" issues from this discussion altogether. We are talking an extrapolation of facts, events, and personalities of what we will loosely call the TOS Era.

2). Assume that The Motion Picture on film was considered a pilot of sorts for the second five year mission of the USS Enterprise under the command of Captain James T. Kirk.

3). Explain in as excruciatingly detailed as you wish how the history of the Federation, and Star Fleet might have progressed beyond 2268. This includes starships, equipment, and all of that technical stuff we do so love here in this forum.

4). Limit your source material to strictly TOS-to-TMP Era technology (which includes the aforementioned in Condition 3).

For the opening discussion, I would like to hear your ideas on what the state of galactic policy would have been like after the "V'Ger Incident" (by my reckoning, 2268). Bear in mind that the Klingon Empire was affected by the sudden appearance of V'Ger in their space, which could make for an extremely interesting scenario for Federation-Klingon Relations after 2268.

Let us begin.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

As I speculated in this thread, I suspect that Gene Roddenberry would have most likely used John Meredyth Lucas' unproduced Phase II teleplay, Kitumba, as the basis for a possible sequel film to ST:TMP had he not been replaced with Harve "Time Trax" Bennett. Damn, I get so depressed when I think about what was lost with the advent of Bennett & Meyer.

TGT

 

[Neopeius]

I think it's a fine POD. I'd actually enjoy helping to compose this universe with you. It would capture the feeling of the first Spaceflight Chronology, illustrated by Rick Sternbach.

If it doesn't take off here, we can talk about it over e-mail or IM.

 

[aridas sofia]

1). We will assume that the original stories for Star Trek II - VI never came to be, thus eliminating "canonical" issues from this discussion altogether. We are talking an extrapolation of facts, events, and personalities of what we will loosely call the TOS Era.

2). Assume that The Motion Picture on film was considered a pilot of sorts for the second five year mission of the USS Enterprise under the command of Captain James T. Kirk.

3). Explain in as excruciatingly detailed as you wish how the history of the Federation, and Star Fleet might have progressed beyond 2268. This includes starships, equipment, and all of that technical stuff we do so love here in this forum.

4). Limit your source material to strictly TOS-to-TMP Era technology (which includes the aforementioned in Condition 3).

For the opening discussion, I would like to hear your ideas on what the state of galactic policy would have been like after the "V'Ger Incident" (by my reckoning, 2268). Bear in mind that the Klingon Empire was affected by the sudden appearance of V'Ger in their space, which could make for an extremely interesting scenario for Federation-Klingon Relations after 2268.

This question demands more thought than I have time for at the moment. I also wish I wasn't one of the first to post a reply, but in the interest of helping get things going I'll have at it.

First off, I think this really entails three questions -- two of which belong on other forums. How might the tech be dealt with? But also how might the visual style be dealt with -- a question for the art forum. And finally, what about the plot to tie all this together? A writing question. But because answering the tech question is somewhat dependent on the other two I will provide brief answers to all three.

As for the tech, I would go against the grain of the kind of Star Fleet that SFPO and Mastercom depicted, which was really an extension of Franz Joseph's thinking, and instead go back to the TOS notion of a fleet with twelve ships as its core. This would be a fleet that as depicted in TOS doesn't really "go where no man has gone before" too often, but rather forms the center around which other exploratory and military elements are organized. The number of these "focal" ships might vary between say, 20 on the high side and 7-8 on the low. And instead of having whole classes of Constitution, Enterprise, Tikopai, Endeavor, Achernar, Bonhomme Richard, etc. each of these designs might represent individual variants, or at most designs reflected in no more than 2-3 ships.

The variety of other ships seen in books like SotSF and the FRS might have stayed the same, but the number of builds would have been much smaller. Again think individual variants (or at most designs reflected in no more than 2-3 ships) instead of whole classes. The distinction between the ships built for exploratory duty, and those built for the armed forces, would be magnified however. Exploratory ships would range out from known space and be highly self-sufficient. Taking a cue from NASA they might have military command staffs and largely scientific, non Star Fleet crews. On the perimeter of known space would be the focal ships, supporting the explorers, doing some exploration, patrolling the outermost space lanes, providing aid to colonies on the frontier, etc. On the perimeter between different areas of settled space would be the PA type ships, wholly military yet largely detached from the command structure, creating a tension between a very serious mission and the need for a lighter tone to shipboard life. Not unlike a PT in the Pacific during WW II. One step behind them would be the major fleet elements, organized as a permanent fleet but in practice most often acting individually or as elements of a task force.

This fleet would be confronted by the vastness of space, and would not have easy resources to just throw at any problem that happened their way. But what kind of problems would happen their way? No aliens that look at all like humans with a little make up. I would look at the variety of hominids that have appeared on Earth and the way their appearances vary and use that as a cue for ways in which the inhabitants of various planets might vary, but I would make it clear at some point along the way that these life forms had been transplanted from Earth in the distant past, and had evolved as distinctive forms of the family Hominidae. Include in these groups the several races within the Klingon Empire, the Vulcans and their Romulan brothers, Andorians and Tellarites. And if I messed with the appearance of any of them it would be to emphasize their distant relationship to Earthmen. Along with such planets, and far greater in number would be the colonies of Earth humans, some of which would have evolved very distinctive societies. In short, a stage set for examining the HUMAN condition, and not for looking at a make-up artist's funhouse.

Where the make up artist would have to stretch would be in envisioning the real aliens. They would be far stranger than anything seen, though Arex and those "species 8472" things might be a good beginning point.

Very, very few planets (except for the colonies of course) would have anything comparable to Earth's level of development. They would either be far advanced or far behind. Think thousands of years of difference here, and in some cases much more. Those few planets on the same tech level with Earth would be explained via stories illustrating cultural pollution. For example confronting Klingons polluted centuries earlier by human interference with their culture would help to drive home the lessons of the Prime Directive.

Speaking of Klingons, I would not have ignored the differences between the TOS group and those in TMP. I would have considered it an opportunity to discover more about an empire composed of several peoples pursuing a common goal. Perhaps in the same way many conquered peoples fell in behind the Romans (or Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, etc). But divisions would exist, and these would be the springboards to more stories.

I would not build on the V'ger story because I think that ended very nicely with the end of TMP. I might have it influence the New Human movement on Earth in a strong way, but I don't see it affecting interplanetary relations. One event that I do see dramatically affecting the way things were portrayed in TOS would be the discovery of the Guardian of Forever. Instead of a temporal Cold War, I think this would have proven to be a temporal temptation, with everyone scheming to use the thing to destroy the other major powers. This would affect various factions on Earth as well as on the adversary and allied planets. It would slowly tip the stories in a more military direction.

But the stories would still be episodic and not a serialized arc. Character development would be given a little more weight than in TOS. But above all else, the stories would come from established science fiction authors with even greater frequency than in TOS. The writing staff, hopefully made up of people with instincts as sound as DC Fontana and Gene Coon, would then apply the touches that would bring it all together. Only there would be no Roddenberry to under-appreciate and openly bad-mouth the SF writers. These artists would be involved in the rewrites and receive the respect they deserve.

I might conceive of TOS and this TMP-inspired Trek as a chapter in a saga focusing on the career of Kirk. Like Aubrey / Maturin or Hornblower, and better than Honor Harrington. These parts would be the Captain Kirk parts. If there were a "prequel" it would be Midshipman Kirk, or Lieutenant Kirk. And a sequel series would deal with the building militarization as a consequence of the discovery of the Guardian, with Kirk stuck on Earth as an admiral, directing events that he set in motion when the Enterprise discovered the gateway. He would be a frustrated man trying to get back into space, and just as the galaxy would slowly accommodate the incredible discovery of the Guardian, Kirk would slowly accommodate himself to his new station in life.

Visually, the challenge would be to bridge the stark differences between TOS and TMP. Instead of going in a third direction as Trek did after TMP, I would set TOS and TMP as two distinctive looks at the extremes of a spectrum, and then fill in the spectrum with material that would fit with either extreme. It might necessitate establishing TMP as happening more than three years after the first five-year mission. More like the ten years that passed in real life. But inevitably these looks would nevertheless collide at points, and the collision would need to be softened by bridging elements.

For example, instead of this:

Something like this:

Get the idea? Work with TOS instead of discarding it. Build on it instead of going in a new direction. And use the art and style of TMP as part of that building process.

Sorry about the length of this. Once I started to think about it the ideas just started to flow. Like mental diarrhea.

 

[Corwwyn]

Posted by aridas sofia SFPO ret:Speaking of Klingons, I would not have ignored the differences between the TOS group and those in TMP. I would have considered it an opportunity to discover more about an empire composed of several peoples pursuing a common goal. Perhaps in the same way many conquered peoples fell in behind the Romans (or Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, etc). But divisions would exist, and these would be the springboards to more stories.

I agree with this and think it would have been great.

On a personal level, a missed opportunity I regret is in TPTB not cutting a deal with the Star Fleet Battles folks for ship designs, race development, and ready made guidelines for translating battle tactics/mechanics onto the screen.

Oh well.

 

[Guest]

Posted by The God Thing:
As I speculated in this thread, I suspect that Gene Roddenberry would have most likely used John Meredyth Lucas' unproduced Phase II teleplay, Kitumba, as the basis for a possible sequel film to ST:TMP had he not been replaced with Harve "Time Trax" Bennett. Damn, I get so depressed when I think about what was lost with the advent of Bennett & Meyer.

TGT

Thanks for responding guys! Now I will try to respond to all of ya in order of appearance shall we say.

Popped over to the thread you mentioned TGT, as always, your posts on this very subject always make me smile. I can tell your a "Tell it like it is" kinda guy, I love it.

Regarding Kitumba, that would have been my pick as well. For once, we would have gotten the real story about the Klingon Empire, and perhaps once and for all, we could have seen why there were two races of Klingon. My own conjecture, based on a reference from the FRS, was that there were probably 4 racial types, much akin to our own history on Earth with Homo Erectus, archaic Homo Sapiens, classic Neanderthals, and us.

 

[Guest]

Posted by Neopeius:
I think it's a fine POD. I'd actually enjoy helping to compose this universe with you. It would capture the feeling of the first Spaceflight Chronology, illustrated by Rick Sternbach.

If it doesn't take off here, we can talk about it over e-mail or IM.

Thanks for joining in and giving the vote of confidence, Neopeius! I like a few others here have puzzled over just what to do with all of the date provided for us in the SFC. We sure can discuss it further if you like. I can be reached via:

AOL Instant Messenger
Jason33m

MSN Messenger
coatlantis1745@hotmail.com

ICQ# 348461568

Ill make those available to anyone who wishes to contact me directly on this subject (that means you too, Aridas )

My website, http://www.uss-atlantis.org needs some creative focus, and if enough interest is generated on this very subject, I would love to explore this alternative history via an online Federation Reference Series (hint hint Aridas), encyclopedia, chronology, artworks, stories, etc. See the direction Im leaning towards here?

 

[Guest]

Posted by aridas sofia SFPO ret:

1). We will assume that the original stories for Star Trek II - VI never came to be, thus eliminating "canonical" issues from this discussion altogether. We are talking an extrapolation of facts, events, and personalities of what we will loosely call the TOS Era.

2). Assume that The Motion Picture on film was considered a pilot of sorts for the second five year mission of the USS Enterprise under the command of Captain James T. Kirk.

3). Explain in as excruciatingly detailed as you wish how the history of the Federation, and Star Fleet might have progressed beyond 2268. This includes starships, equipment, and all of that technical stuff we do so love here in this forum.

4). Limit your source material to strictly TOS-to-TMP Era technology (which includes the aforementioned in Condition 3).

For the opening discussion, I would like to hear your ideas on what the state of galactic policy would have been like after the "V'Ger Incident" (by my reckoning, 2268). Bear in mind that the Klingon Empire was affected by the sudden appearance of V'Ger in their space, which could make for an extremely interesting scenario for Federation-Klingon Relations after 2268.

This question demands more thought than I have time for at the moment. I also wish I wasn't one of the first to post a reply, but in the interest of helping get things going I'll have at it.

First off, I think this really entails three questions -- two of which belong on other forums. How might the tech be dealt with? But also how might the visual style be dealt with -- a question for the art forum. And finally, what about the plot to tie all this together? A writing question. But because answering the tech question is somewhat dependent on the other two I will provide brief answers to all three.

As for the tech, I would go against the grain of the kind of Star Fleet that SFPO and Mastercom depicted, which was really an extension of Franz Joseph's thinking, and instead go back to the TOS notion of a fleet with twelve ships as its core. This would be a fleet that as depicted in TOS doesn't really "go where no man has gone before" too often, but rather forms the center around which other exploratory and military elements are organized. The number of these "focal" ships might vary between say, 20 on the high side and 7-8 on the low. And instead of having whole classes of Constitution, Enterprise, Tikopai, Endeavor, Achernar, Bonhomme Richard, etc. each of these designs might represent individual variants, or at most designs reflected in no more than 2-3 ships.

The variety of other ships seen in books like SotSF and the FRS might have stayed the same, but the number of builds would have been much smaller. Again think individual variants (or at most designs reflected in no more than 2-3 ships) instead of whole classes. The distinction between the ships built for exploratory duty, and those built for the armed forces, would be magnified however. Exploratory ships would range out from known space and be highly self-sufficient. Taking a cue from NASA they might have military command staffs and largely scientific, non Star Fleet crews. On the perimeter of known space would be the focal ships, supporting the explorers, doing some exploration, patrolling the outermost space lanes, providing aid to colonies on the frontier, etc. On the perimeter between different areas of settled space would be the PA type ships, wholly military yet largely detached from the command structure, creating a tension between a very serious mission and the need for a lighter tone to shipboard life. Not unlike a PT in the Pacific during WW II. One step behind them would be the major fleet elements, organized as a permanent fleet but in practice most often acting individually or as elements of a task force.

This fleet would be confronted by the vastness of space, and would not have easy resources to just throw at any problem that happened their way. But what kind of problems would happen their way? No aliens that look at all like humans with a little make up. I would look at the variety of hominids that have appeared on Earth and the way their appearances vary and use that as a cue for ways in which the inhabitants of various planets might vary, but I would make it clear at some point along the way that these life forms had been transplanted from Earth in the distant past, and had evolved as distinctive forms of the family Hominidae. Include in these groups the several races within the Klingon Empire, the Vulcans and their Romulan brothers, Andorians and Tellarites. And if I messed with the appearance of any of them it would be to emphasize their distant relationship to Earthmen. Along with such planets, and far greater in number would be the colonies of Earth humans, some of which would have evolved very distinctive societies. In short, a stage set for examining the HUMAN condition, and not for looking at a make-up artist's funhouse.

Where the make up artist would have to stretch would be in envisioning the real aliens. They would be far stranger than anything seen, though Arex and those "species 8472" things might be a good beginning point.

Very, very few planets (except for the colonies of course) would have anything comparable to Earth's level of development. They would either be far advanced or far behind. Think thousands of years of difference here, and in some cases much more. Those few planets on the same tech level with Earth would be explained via stories illustrating cultural pollution. For example confronting Klingons polluted centuries earlier by human interference with their culture would help to drive home the lessons of the Prime Directive.

Speaking of Klingons, I would not have ignored the differences between the TOS group and those in TMP. I would have considered it an opportunity to discover more about an empire composed of several peoples pursuing a common goal. Perhaps in the same way many conquered peoples fell in behind the Romans (or Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, etc). But divisions would exist, and these would be the springboards to more stories.

I would not build on the V'ger story because I think that ended very nicely with the end of TMP. I might have it influence the New Human movement on Earth in a strong way, but I don't see it affecting interplanetary relations. One event that I do see dramatically affecting the way things were portrayed in TOS would be the discovery of the Guardian of Forever. Instead of a temporal Cold War, I think this would have proven to be a temporal temptation, with everyone scheming to use the thing to destroy the other major powers. This would affect various factions on Earth as well as on the adversary and allied planets. It would slowly tip the stories in a more military direction.

But the stories would still be episodic and not a serialized arc. Character development would be given a little more weight than in TOS. But above all else, the stories would come from established science fiction authors with even greater frequency than in TOS. The writing staff, hopefully made up of people with instincts as sound as DC Fontana and Gene Coon, would then apply the touches that would bring it all together. Only there would be no Roddenberry to under-appreciate and openly bad-mouth the SF writers. These artists would be involved in the rewrites and receive the respect they deserve.

I might conceive of TOS and this TMP-inspired Trek as a chapter in a saga focusing on the career of Kirk. Like Aubrey / Maturin or Hornblower, and better than Honor Harrington. These parts would be the Captain Kirk parts. If there were a "prequel" it would be Midshipman Kirk, or Lieutenant Kirk. And a sequel series would deal with the building militarization as a consequence of the discovery of the Guardian, with Kirk stuck on Earth as an admiral, directing events that he set in motion when the Enterprise discovered the gateway. He would be a frustrated man trying to get back into space, and just as the galaxy would slowly accommodate the incredible discovery of the Guardian, Kirk would slowly accommodate himself to his new station in life.

Visually, the challenge would be to bridge the stark differences between TOS and TMP. Instead of going in a third direction as Trek did after TMP, I would set TOS and TMP as two distinctive looks at the extremes of a spectrum, and then fill in the spectrum with material that would fit with either extreme. It might necessitate establishing TMP as happening more than three years after the first five-year mission. More like the ten years that passed in real life. But inevitably these looks would nevertheless collide at points, and the collision would need to be softened by bridging elements.

For example, instead of this:

[image]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/aridas/twok1.jpg[/image] [image]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/aridas/twok2.jpg[/image]

Something like this:

[image]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/aridas/trek2a.jpg[/image] [image]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/aridas/trek2b.jpg[/image]

Get the idea? Work with TOS instead of discarding it. Build on it instead of going in a new direction. And use the art and style of TMP as part of that building process.

Sorry about the length of this. Once I started to think about it the ideas just started to flow. Like mental diarrhea.

What can I say about this one? I honestly do not believe I can express just how closely our ideas mirror, Aridas. I was always of the holdfast opinion that the TMP Era should be an extension of the TOS/TAS Era with a few minor adjustments allowed for growth and advances in technology. I am liking your storyline premise for possibly including the Guardian and planet Gateway, possibly as an ongoing story arc.

I am very interested in hearing how you would handle the starship class issues at length. I think that is a very logical way to handle the bulk of fleet ops in this scenario. The Guardian would be a very intriguing bone of contention for galactic powers to squabble over.

Id say, we are definately onto something here. I like your uniform concepts as well. Lets keep it going, and please be as long winded as you wish, that means everyone

 

[aridas sofia]

Posted by The God Thing:
As I speculated in this thread, I suspect that Gene Roddenberry would have most likely used John Meredyth Lucas' unproduced Phase II teleplay, Kitumba, as the basis for a possible sequel film to ST:TMP had he not been replaced with Harve "Time Trax" Bennett. Damn, I get so depressed when I think about what was lost with the advent of Bennett & Meyer.

TGT

As you might be able to tell from my suggestions, I agree with this completely. Kitumba represented more than just additional Klingon background. It would have established an entirely different direction for how they would be handled thereafter. No idiot brutes. Instead, treacherous connivers modeled after empires past and present. Coupled with acknowledging that an empire is made up of the conquerors and the conquered, "it would have been glorious".

 

[AlexR]

Posted by FCaptJason:
At this risk of hijacking the discussions of others, I have initiated this post.

Nah, no hijack in a thread dedicated to an idea.

Our subject: Star Trek Phase II to Star Trek The Motion Picture. I have often wondered where exactly Star Trek would have been today if Phase II had actually became a reality, or if not the new television series, what direction could Star Trek have taken after Star Trek The Motion Picture.

There are a few of us here who have fundemanetal problems with the direction that Star Trek took after TMP. I remember when the film premiered in the theater. I was kid, 11 years old, having been exposed to Star Trek via re-runs (They were on at 4pm every night on the local tv station).

They are interesting thoughts. I didn't start really having issues with the course Trek was taking 'til '87, but I have long wondered such things as what might have happened if "Phase II" had been produced, or if Gene Roddenberry had remained in control of the features, etc.

<snip>

I missed seeing Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan in theater (possibly for good reasons) in 1982, but by 1983, I owned my first copy of the Star Fleet Technical Manual and a few other bits of technical fiction. It was that year, I became technical fiction fanatic. The time leading upto Star Trek III The Search for Spock was very exciting, and I have Aridas Sofia, Todd Guenther, and Geoff Mandel to name a few to thank for it. The material produced during the early eighties was what made Star Trek real for me. I could hold a set of Enterprise Class blueprints in my hands and marvel at how beautiful her new incarnation was.

1983, I joined the local chapter of Starfleet International (Alex do you remember this one?) the USS LaFayette NCC-1720, and quickly became The Chief Engineer. It allowed me to draw my own set of Enterprise Class plans with a few modifications ofcourse. . .

I do indeed recall the Lafayette. So far, my attempts to convince a new group to use her again have not worked out so well. I do miss the days when Starfleet International (SFI for short) used FJ's manual quite heavily.

<more snippage>

From Trek II right on upto 1991, my hunger for better Star Trek was left unsatiated. At least on screen. . .

It's been better in print since the beginning of the '80s, at least, I must admit.

The year is 2003, and Im still wondering how it could have been had Star Trek taken another direction after the brilliance that was The Motion Picture. So, after a much long-winded rant, I would like to hear others views on how Star Trek could have been.

It's definitely an interesting area for speculation, although I will caution that we need to be careful of where we step here, so we don't drift too far out of the realm of sociological/technical/historical speculation and into the realm of outright fanfic. 's okay? Good.

So far, I think we're okay, FWIW...

Best,
Alex

 

[Guest]

Posted by AlexR:

Posted by FCaptJason:
At this risk of hijacking the discussions of others, I have initiated this post.

Nah, no hijack in a thread dedicated to an idea.

Our subject: Star Trek Phase II to Star Trek The Motion Picture. I have often wondered where exactly Star Trek would have been today if Phase II had actually became a reality, or if not the new television series, what direction could Star Trek have taken after Star Trek The Motion Picture.

There are a few of us here who have fundemanetal problems with the direction that Star Trek took after TMP. I remember when the film premiered in the theater. I was kid, 11 years old, having been exposed to Star Trek via re-runs (They were on at 4pm every night on the local tv station).

They are interesting thoughts. I didn't start really having issues with the course Trek was taking 'til '87, but I have long wondered such things as what might have happened if "Phase II" had been produced, or if Gene Roddenberry had remained in control of the features, etc.

<snip>

I missed seeing Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan in theater (possibly for good reasons) in 1982, but by 1983, I owned my first copy of the Star Fleet Technical Manual and a few other bits of technical fiction. It was that year, I became technical fiction fanatic. The time leading upto Star Trek III The Search for Spock was very exciting, and I have Aridas Sofia, Todd Guenther, and Geoff Mandel to name a few to thank for it. The material produced during the early eighties was what made Star Trek real for me. I could hold a set of Enterprise Class blueprints in my hands and marvel at how beautiful her new incarnation was.

1983, I joined the local chapter of Starfleet International (Alex do you remember this one?) the USS LaFayette NCC-1720, and quickly became The Chief Engineer. It allowed me to draw my own set of Enterprise Class plans with a few modifications ofcourse. . .

I do indeed recall the Lafayette. So far, my attempts to convince a new group to use her again have not worked out so well. I do miss the days when Starfleet International (SFI for short) used FJ's manual quite heavily.

<more snippage>

From Trek II right on upto 1991, my hunger for better Star Trek was left unsatiated. At least on screen. . .

It's been better in print since the beginning of the '80s, at least, I must admit.

The year is 2003, and Im still wondering how it could have been had Star Trek taken another direction after the brilliance that was The Motion Picture. So, after a much long-winded rant, I would like to hear others views on how Star Trek could have been.

It's definitely an interesting area for speculation, although I will caution that we need to be careful of where we step here, so we don't drift too far out of the realm of sociological/technical/historical speculation and into the realm of outright fanfic. 's okay? Good.

So far, I think we're okay, FWIW...

Best,
Alex

Rest assured Admiral, we'll confine the storylines to the places they belong, quite possibly a section devoted to such at the new website. Basically, I was just conducting a small survey of ideas on this subject.

 

[Data Holmes]

Shameless necrothread bumping here because I want to see this discussion go further.

 

[Unicron]

You know, it took me a minute to figure out why somebody was only seen as an anonymous guest. Normally I wouldn't encourage raising threads from the dead, but I do agree this is an interesting topic. So I'm game if anyone else is interested in renewing the discussion.

 

[Data Holmes]

You know, it took me a minute to figure out why somebody was only seen as an anonymous guest. Normally I wouldn't encourage raising threads from the dead, but I do agree this is an interesting topic. So I'm game if anyone else is interested in renewing the discussion.

Cool, I was a little worried about getting in trouble about it.

 

[Praetor]

As I speculated in this thread, I suspect that Gene Roddenberry would have most likely used John Meredyth Lucas' unproduced Phase II teleplay, Kitumba, as the basis for a possible sequel film to ST:TMP had he not been replaced with Harve "Time Trax" Bennett. Damn, I get so depressed when I think about what was lost with the advent of Bennett & Meyer.

TGT

Romulans can still haz honor?

Seriously, 'Kitumba' would have kicked ass as a big-budget film. That is an excellent story.

(Good lord this thread was started before I registered here!)

 

[Data Holmes]

As I speculated in this thread, I suspect that Gene Roddenberry would have most likely used John Meredyth Lucas' unproduced Phase II teleplay, Kitumba, as the basis for a possible sequel film to ST:TMP had he not been replaced with Harve "Time Trax" Bennett. Damn, I get so depressed when I think about what was lost with the advent of Bennett & Meyer.

TGT

Romulans can still haz honor?

LoL Romulans...

Seriously, 'Kitumba' would have kicked ass as a big-budget film. That is an excellent story.

I still wish I could find a copy of that script.

(Good lord this thread was started before I registered here!)

Youngin...

 

[Praetor]

As I speculated in this thread, I suspect that Gene Roddenberry would have most likely used John Meredyth Lucas' unproduced Phase II teleplay, Kitumba, as the basis for a possible sequel film to ST:TMP had he not been replaced with Harve "Time Trax" Bennett. Damn, I get so depressed when I think about what was lost with the advent of Bennett & Meyer.

TGT

Romulans can still haz honor?

LoL Romulans...

Klingons haz stole honor. Me wantz back.

Seriously, 'Kitumba' would have kicked ass as a big-budget film. That is an excellent story.

I still wish I could find a copy of that script.

I have the treatment in the Phase II book...

(Good lord this thread was started before I registered here!)

Youngin...

Twenty-four as of a week ago, thank you.

 

[Data Holmes]

Romulans can still haz honor?

LoL Romulans...

Klingons haz stole honor. Me wantz back.

God, that could become an addictive thing...

I have the treatment in the Phase II book...

TGT actually put up PDF's of the full script back in the day, but the computer I saved them to died shortly after and before I could actually read them.

(Good lord this thread was started before I registered here!)

Youngin...

Twenty-four as of a week ago, thank you.

I'll be 26 in 21 days, but I joined up in 01 with this account...

 

[Praetor]

LoL Romulans...

Klingons haz stole honor. Me wantz back.

God, that could become an addictive thing...

I haz problem.

TGT actually put up PDF's of the full script back in the day, but the computer I saved them to died shortly after and before I could actually read them.

He did? TGT, where are you??

Twenty-four as of a week ago, thank you.

I'll be 26 in 21 days, but I joined up in 01 with this account...

Well, I grew up in a rural area. No can haz internetz.

 

[lennier1]

@Praetor: Better?

@Data Holmes: Thanks for giving this thread a second chance. This definitely offers a lot of interesting ideas (e.g., aridas´ take on the fleet and Klingons and on authors who can actually keep up with DC Fontana).