Star Trek or Star Wars? Which franchise is better now?

[JirinPanthosa]

Star Wars is a pop culture monster now. Star Trek swims in the kiddie pool, afraid to take any real chances.

No question Star Wars is more culturally iconic, but are you suggesting Star Wars is willing to take chances? Star Wars hasn't taken a chance since the release of the original. Their first movie of the new Star Wars era was basically the same exact plot as the first.

For new output I'd put them both about equal. Both are pretty good, quite entertaining, not great. I guess Star Wars gets the edge on production value. Based on historical I enjoy the first three Trek series more than Star Wars. A movie franchise that took me on a couple great fun adventures versus a show that created a universe.

(I know, Star Wars has a universe too, but most of its character is tied up in good and evil with no gray hues and only takes on real robustness in the imagination of the hardcore fans.)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Rogue One was breaking the mold and taking chances. Rather obviously so, since Jyn

Spoiler

and the rest of her team all died.

 

[shivkala]

While I enjoy it, everything about Discovery reeks of them taking a chance: another prequel, updated technology incongruous with the time period, a more mature approach (cursing, etc.), the main character not being the Captain, the main character having been court-martialed, conflict among crew members, a morally shady Captain, etc. Not to mention the chance of putting it on their streaming service in the US, instead of on network television.

 

[USS Firefly]

I think Star Trek is better and takes more risks, Star Wars is more fun. Although they did take a risk with RO, after the succes of the soft reboot with EP7.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Rogue One was breaking the mold and taking chances. Rather obviously so, since Jyn

Spoiler

and the rest of her team all died.

Kind of, but that result is kind of required by the premise because

Spoiler

if they hadn't died they should have been around in the original.

Remember this is the same series that edited the original scene to make Greedo shoot first. So un-risky they edited out the riskiness in a 20 year old scene.

One could argue though that even starting a Star Trek show nowadays is inherently a risk, much less making it dark.

I suppose if the question is 'which is better *now*', you have to go with Star Wars because VII and Rogue Ones are at least fully realized products in the 6/10-7/10 range. Neither Star Wars nor Star Trek has broken 7 since the second to last episode of Enterprise. The original two Star Wars movies are solid 10/10s, but nothing else Star Wars has ever done has exceeded 7/10 whereas Star Trek has exceeded 7 several times.

 

[Galileo7]

J.J.'s Star Trek film trilogy with a potential fourth film along with Discovery television series makes me believe both franchises are better now. Albeit, the edge goes to the Disney owned Lucasfilm's Star Wars films that have the box office supremacy they have always had since '77.
If a director can deliver a Star Trek film that grosses like a Star Wars film, then Star Trek will be an equal.

 

[BillJ]

Kind of, but that result is kind of required by the premise because

Spoiler

if they hadn't died they should have been around in the original.

Why? Universe is a huge place.

 

[USS Firefly]

Why? Universe is a huge place.

Unfortunately the Star Trek and Star Wars universe are very small, because lt seems that everyone knows everyone.

 

[fireproof78]

Kind of, but that result is kind of required by the premise because

Spoiler

if they hadn't died they should have been around in the original.

Remember this is the same series that edited the original scene to make Greedo shoot first. So un-risky they edited out the riskiness in a 20 year old scene.

Not really, since in the Legends timeline, Kyle Katarn transmitted the plans just continued on smuggling and job hopping. He existed on the periphery of were the action was at.

Jyn and Cassian could have just as easily been assigned to another planet, or the evacuation of Dantooine, or something like that.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Why? Universe is a huge place.

Yeah, they could have retired to a beach somewhere. The ending took me by surprise.

 

[Mudd]

You know, it's not like I'm waiting on tetter-hooks for the release of Episode IX. I'm not that into Star Wars.

OTOH, I'll always count the days to a new Star Trek show or movie, and give it a fair chance. Because I'm a fan.

That's not what this is about.

Which franchise will mass numbers of folks who are not pre-sold (which can never be entirely true, these days) take time from their routine and spend money and effort to watch when a new installment appears?


It's not like most folks are less smart or imbued with discriminating taste than we are. Trekkies fall all over the bell curve, as does the population at large.

 

[Captain Nebula]

then look at the infighting among SW fans about The Force Awakens and Rogue One

I don't know if there's really infighting so much other than Rogue One made The Force Awakens look like the Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Remember this is the same series that edited the original scene to make Greedo shoot first.

I remember. And there have been two at least versions of that travesty. All of these revisions undermined Han's character arc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_shot_first#History

 

[LJones41]

Rogue One was breaking the mold and taking chances. Rather obviously so, since Jyn

Spoiler

and the rest of her team all died.

And yet, it was more or less a product of the Original Trilogy. Disney seems incapable of escaping that era.

I remember. And there have been two at least versions of that travesty. All of these revisions undermined Han's character arc.

Oh please. Han's character was true to form when he was unwilling to leave the Falcon to rescue Leia from the Death until Luke promised him a reward. I found that more interesting than whether he shot Greedo first or vice versa. And Lucas kept that intact.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And yet, it was more or less a product of the Original Trilogy. Disney seems incapable of escaping that era.

With one film already released under Disney that was set in a different era and a sequel to it about it come out, the second statement there is utterly contrary to fact.

As for the first statement, every Star Wars film and TV show to date has had multiple characters from the 1977 original film, you know, so every single damn piece of the franchise is in that way a product of the Original Trilogy, whether made by Disney or not.

So, what exactly is your point?

 

[ralfy]

Generally the same, i.e., borrowing from past features or shows and relying more on spectacle.

 

[fireproof78]

With one film already released under Disney that was set in a different era and a sequel to it about it come out, the second statement there is utterly contrary to fact.

As for the first statement, every Star Wars film and TV show to date has had multiple characters from the 1977 original film, you know, so every single damn piece of the franchise is in that way a product of the Original Trilogy, whether made by Disney or not.

So, what exactly is your point?

That Disney is evil.

Regardless of substance of the actual work, Disney can do nothing right, even though Lucasfilm has largely operated under pretty loose leash for their work.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I don't know if there's really infighting so much other than Rogue One made The Force Awakens look like the Star Wars Holiday Special.

More than that, as many fans do not like the direction of the series, where it appears Kathleen Kennedy will do anything to push whatever her plans are, while stomping all over original continuity that did not require sideline explanations (Rogue One was full of that) among other problems. There's more in-fighting of the SW fanbase now than anything seen during the theatrical run of the prequels.

With one film already released under Disney that was set in a different era and a sequel to it about it come out, the second statement there is utterly contrary to fact.

As for the first statement, every Star Wars film and TV show to date has had multiple characters from the 1977 original film, you know, so every single damn piece of the franchise is in that way a product of the Original Trilogy, whether made by Disney or not.

...then you have supported the quote you originally tried to counter. Not escaping that original era means constantly referring to the OT, right down to the embarrassing copy+paste job of A New Hope known as The Force Awakens. There's no new ground broken here; at least in the old days of the expanded universe, occasionally, writers dared to explore more than a few stories having no copy+paste references to the OT.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

...then you have supported the quote you originally tried to counter.

On the contrary, the poster criticized Disney's SW products for doing something that every other installment of Star Wars has done, namely being a "product of the Original Trilogy." My point was therefore, simply, "What's the big deal? Why single out Disney?" You may as well point a finger at everyone from Dave Filoni to George Lucas while you're at it, if that's a problem.

Not escaping that original era means constantly referring to the OT, right down to the embarrassing copy+paste job of A New Hope known as The Force Awakens. There's no new ground broken here; at least in the old days of the expanded universe, occasionally, writers dared to explore more than a few stories having no copy+paste references to the OT.

TFA is in a different era from the OT, full stop and regardless of whatever literary criticisms apply to it. Story-wise, the events in TFA occur years after OT. We see OT characters having aged and done things in the interim. All of that nullifies the claim that Disney "seems incapable of escaping" the OT era, and however much that TFA is a copy+paste job of the OT is quite beside that point.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Why is this even a question? I mean a love both franchises, but there's really nothing to compare. One is most likely 11 days away from setting new box office records, and the other is that show that every young actor in Hollywood's dad watched.

Star Wars is a pop culture monster now.

Correction: Star Wars has been THE pop culture monster of the last 40 years.

*ETA: And as far as quality, the second Star Wars film is arguably in the top 20 films - or even top ten - of all time.

The very best Star Trek movie was the runner-up skiffy film of its release year.