Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thread
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Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
I finally managed to download it completely and have watched two times now.
Very impressive. These people really show us how to make a decent show. The plot is promising and I can´t wait to see how things unfold.
I always thought it was the strength of DS9 and New Voyages, that they continued and developed their story arc with each new episode.
This seems to be the case with Odyssey too. So we cant go wrong with that.
The overall look and feel of this episode is beautyfull and has a certain magic to itself.
The Archons have a fascinating culture that is worth to be explored.
And the actors - compared to Hidden Frontier - all know how to act and they look more professional.
My only concern is the ongoing obsession of these people with homosexuality.
Putting a certain sexual orientation and a certain love affair constantly in the center of all episodes of a Star Trek series just does not feel right for me. It´s getting generic here.
But I can ignore it. And apart from this, this is fantastic Star Trek. The way it was in the 90th, the way I enjoyed it week after week.
I finally managed to download it completely and have watched two times now.
Very impressive. These people really show us how to make a decent show. The plot is promising and I can´t wait to see how things unfold.
I always thought it was the strength of DS9 and New Voyages, that they continued and developed their story arc with each new episode.
This seems to be the case with Odyssey too. So we cant go wrong with that.
The overall look and feel of this episode is beautyfull and has a certain magic to itself.
The Archons have a fascinating culture that is worth to be explored.
And the actors - compared to Hidden Frontier - all know how to act and they look more professional.
My only concern is the ongoing obsession of these people with homosexuality.
Putting a certain sexual orientation and a certain love affair constantly in the center of all episodes of a Star Trek series just does not feel right for me. It´s getting generic here.
But I can ignore it. And apart from this, this is fantastic Star Trek. The way it was in the 90th, the way I enjoyed it week after week.
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
Great job guys, this is probably your best work so far.
Your green screen work has really improved over your last series. As for the script I found it flowed better then the past ones and much more professional also.
Keep it up because I am looking forward to EP.2
Great job guys, this is probably your best work so far.
Your green screen work has really improved over your last series. As for the script I found it flowed better then the past ones and much more professional also.
Keep it up because I am looking forward to EP.2
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
A another great start for a fan film series. Agreed wth all above, the green screening was at it's best, the characters didn't look flat, nor did the scenes have a static look from the lack of camera movement.
Raves-
-Gratuitous (and welcome) new starship in spacedock porn... :thumbsup:
-What are the odds that another Stadi would get trapped in another galaxy?
-Why does evil queen wannabe lie to her momma, and defy the will of the Prophets-erm, Great One.
-Aren't Klingons supposed to fight to the death?
-When did Romulans steal Voyager transport effects?
-Doctor Bashir has an identical, long lost, twin clone half brother?
-The new 1st officer is no Chakotay...
The one rant, would be for Stadi's inappropiate humor after learning of the 1st officer's death. I like her bubblely personality, but that quip back was just... wrong of her.
All in all, a job well done. Keep it up.
A another great start for a fan film series. Agreed wth all above, the green screening was at it's best, the characters didn't look flat, nor did the scenes have a static look from the lack of camera movement.
Raves-
-Gratuitous (and welcome) new starship in spacedock porn... :thumbsup:
-What are the odds that another Stadi would get trapped in another galaxy?
-Why does evil queen wannabe lie to her momma, and defy the will of the Prophets-erm, Great One.
-Aren't Klingons supposed to fight to the death?
-When did Romulans steal Voyager transport effects?
-Doctor Bashir has an identical, long lost, twin clone half brother?
-The new 1st officer is no Chakotay...
The one rant, would be for Stadi's inappropiate humor after learning of the 1st officer's death. I like her bubblely personality, but that quip back was just... wrong of her.
All in all, a job well done. Keep it up.
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
For those that have had trouble downloading and playing, we've released two new formats on the download page here:
http://www.hiddenfrontier.com/episodes/ODY101.php
They are:
DIVX/AVI - 410MB
Quicktime Sorenson (for older computers and players) - 433MB
Hope that covers everyone else who was having trouble!
Best,
Rob
For those that have had trouble downloading and playing, we've released two new formats on the download page here:
http://www.hiddenfrontier.com/episodes/ODY101.php
They are:
DIVX/AVI - 410MB
Quicktime Sorenson (for older computers and players) - 433MB
Hope that covers everyone else who was having trouble!
Best,
Rob
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
And omg! as if that's not bad enough, then they have Worf too? Did you ever notice how they always made such an obvious point of how straight Worf was? I mean they always had him straighting it up with Jadzia, like all the time. Always kissing her and touching her shoulders and stuff, like whenever they got alone, and saying "I love you" and stuff. It was so straight.
Omg, I just realized, Janeway's fiancé was an opposite-sex character too, wasn't he!
WTF is with all the obsession with straightness the Star Trek writers seem to insist on putting in their stories... it's weird. I mean I know there are straight people in the world, and I'm okay with that (I'm not heterophobic or anything), but like, they don't need to actually show it. I think Rick Berman must be, like, obsessed with heterosexuality or something.
Whenever I see something I don't personally like, or fully understand, it's obviously the writers' fault. But still, I think I'll ignore it and watch it anyway, because Star Trek is something I enjoy, even if certain aspects might not match my values perfectly. But hey! At least I can still come complain about it on TrekBBS...
Oh, DS9 was way worse... look at how much gratuitous straightness they threw in for no apparent reason. I mean, what was the point of having Sisko have a wife in the first episode, if they're only gonna kill her off before the story even really starts? Obviously the only point of the Jennifer character was to show how straight Sisko is. I mean... I can't think of any other reason they might create a love-interest character. It's not like she contributed to the story or anything, like to show how losing her would affect Sisko's emotional state, or help explain his character motivation or anything. It was obviously just another chance for the DS9 creators to flaunt their obsession with heterosexuality.
And omg! as if that's not bad enough, then they have Worf too? Did you ever notice how they always made such an obvious point of how straight Worf was? I mean they always had him straighting it up with Jadzia, like all the time. Always kissing her and touching her shoulders and stuff, like whenever they got alone, and saying "I love you" and stuff. It was so straight.
Omg, I just realized, Janeway's fiancé was an opposite-sex character too, wasn't he!
WTF is with all the obsession with straightness the Star Trek writers seem to insist on putting in their stories... it's weird. I mean I know there are straight people in the world, and I'm okay with that (I'm not heterophobic or anything), but like, they don't need to actually show it. I think Rick Berman must be, like, obsessed with heterosexuality or something.
Whenever I see something I don't personally like, or fully understand, it's obviously the writers' fault. But still, I think I'll ignore it and watch it anyway, because Star Trek is something I enjoy, even if certain aspects might not match my values perfectly. But hey! At least I can still come complain about it on TrekBBS...
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
If you don't like it, you can skip over it. I do, because a) I don't find the romances in this series very convincingly played overall, and b) the starship blowey uppy parts are more what I watch it for. But I'm just one viewer, who enjoys every episode.
Mark
If you don't like it, you can skip over it. I do, because a) I don't find the romances in this series very convincingly played overall, and b) the starship blowey uppy parts are more what I watch it for. But I'm just one viewer, who enjoys every episode.
Mark
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
It's cool that people will still watch even if they don't particularly like the gay stuff. I think that in itself is a step in the right direction.
I also think it's great that we've made a *lot* of people happy by including gay characters and shown them in a pretty normal and positive light. It's also an accomplishment that I'm very proud of that we've blazed that trail so that some of the other fan-films and internet shows have decide that it's OK for them to include gay characters as well.
Of course in the end, the most important thing is telling a good story, be it gay, straight, or whatever.
Cheers,
Rob
It's cool that people will still watch even if they don't particularly like the gay stuff. I think that in itself is a step in the right direction.
I also think it's great that we've made a *lot* of people happy by including gay characters and shown them in a pretty normal and positive light. It's also an accomplishment that I'm very proud of that we've blazed that trail so that some of the other fan-films and internet shows have decide that it's OK for them to include gay characters as well.
Of course in the end, the most important thing is telling a good story, be it gay, straight, or whatever.
Cheers,
Rob
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
Exactly.
Exactly.
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
Where is the lonely gay ensign who can't get a date and dreams of guys he can never get? Where is the sweet romance and love unfulfilled? The true love torn from aching arms leading to a lifetime of bachelorhood? Not every gay character has to show his gayness just like not every straight character has to show his straightness. Most characters we've met in Trek haven't had their relationships or hookups or away-mission romances shown on camera, but it doesn't mean they don't have them.
The HF/ODY guys know I love em. I'm proud to have helped out on Odyssey as much as I was able and hope to contribute again in the future. This episode turned out great and I expect as much from the rest of the series. My words are only personal preference and nitpicking, this is their show and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
And another thing. . . When are we gonna get some shirtless blue-skinned lesbian love scenes? I'll eveno do the makeup for em! (those black marks aren't only on their faces)
Straight guys like to see straight relationships for the most part, because they understand them and can connect with the characters in ways they can't as much with a gay relationship. Now obviously HF and Trek in general has a fairly solid gay audience, so having gay relationships is to be expected and applauded. My one complaint on the topic is that most of the sexuality on the show was homosexual, and quite a bit more overt than that shown in the Trek series. At times it seems like they feel the need to go one step further than necessary in order to make a point. It isn't often, but when it happens I think I'm not alone in rolling my eyes.
Where is the lonely gay ensign who can't get a date and dreams of guys he can never get? Where is the sweet romance and love unfulfilled? The true love torn from aching arms leading to a lifetime of bachelorhood? Not every gay character has to show his gayness just like not every straight character has to show his straightness. Most characters we've met in Trek haven't had their relationships or hookups or away-mission romances shown on camera, but it doesn't mean they don't have them.
The HF/ODY guys know I love em. I'm proud to have helped out on Odyssey as much as I was able and hope to contribute again in the future. This episode turned out great and I expect as much from the rest of the series. My words are only personal preference and nitpicking, this is their show and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
And another thing. . . When are we gonna get some shirtless blue-skinned lesbian love scenes? I'll eveno do the makeup for em! (those black marks aren't only on their faces
)Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
Interesting points, Vin. Thanks for being open and honest about them. I think we can all respect honesty about any topic. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that just because you are part of a production, you have to agree 100% with it's message.
I think where we might disagree, is something that occured to me early on in the development of the gay arc. Consider that we have seen a fair number of gay characters in shows already, and they often do follow the "bachelor by means of fill in the blank reason" and those characters were inherently "safe" gay characters. We weren't in danger of seeing anything that might gross anybody out. They had lost love, or they had trouble finding love, and they often served as supporting characters for the more important straight characters to play off of, get advice, etc.
We had "Will and Grace", which I like to call the castrated gay characters. Then "Queer as Folk" came around shortly before Hidden Frontier, and really shattered the *safe* gay characters. Those characters were doing stuff that would even offend gay people!
So with Hidden Frontier, I think it needed to be a clear step beyond gays serving as window dressing, or as secondary characters. And to show them as unsuccessful in love (which, BTW we did on several occasions) wouldn't really be pushing any social barriers of the day. They had to be successful, and they should be able to be mirror images of the same relationships we see with heterosexual couples on the various Trek shows.
There are scenes in DS9 of Worf and Jadzia ripping their clothes off getting ready to make love. We finally did that in Odyssey, and I'm not advocating it be a regular aspect of episodes, but I think it had to be done. And it did serve both characters and plot faithfully. Now it's been done. And now it's time to move on to other aspects of shipboard life.
I would say the same thing about continually showing T'pol getting rubbed down in Enterprise. You've shown it, great. Now move on. Don't show it again unless it really advances the story. Same for the gay stuff.
As for lesbians... I don't want to spoil too much but there may be a lesbian scene in an upcoming episode, and any gratuity will 100% serve the plot or character development! ;-)
Cheers,
Rob
Interesting points, Vin. Thanks for being open and honest about them. I think we can all respect honesty about any topic. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that just because you are part of a production, you have to agree 100% with it's message.
I think where we might disagree, is something that occured to me early on in the development of the gay arc. Consider that we have seen a fair number of gay characters in shows already, and they often do follow the "bachelor by means of fill in the blank reason" and those characters were inherently "safe" gay characters. We weren't in danger of seeing anything that might gross anybody out. They had lost love, or they had trouble finding love, and they often served as supporting characters for the more important straight characters to play off of, get advice, etc.
We had "Will and Grace", which I like to call the castrated gay characters. Then "Queer as Folk" came around shortly before Hidden Frontier, and really shattered the *safe* gay characters. Those characters were doing stuff that would even offend gay people!
So with Hidden Frontier, I think it needed to be a clear step beyond gays serving as window dressing, or as secondary characters. And to show them as unsuccessful in love (which, BTW we did on several occasions) wouldn't really be pushing any social barriers of the day. They had to be successful, and they should be able to be mirror images of the same relationships we see with heterosexual couples on the various Trek shows.
There are scenes in DS9 of Worf and Jadzia ripping their clothes off getting ready to make love. We finally did that in Odyssey, and I'm not advocating it be a regular aspect of episodes, but I think it had to be done. And it did serve both characters and plot faithfully. Now it's been done. And now it's time to move on to other aspects of shipboard life.
I would say the same thing about continually showing T'pol getting rubbed down in Enterprise. You've shown it, great. Now move on. Don't show it again unless it really advances the story. Same for the gay stuff.
As for lesbians... I don't want to spoil too much but there may be a lesbian scene in an upcoming episode, and any gratuity will 100% serve the plot or character development! ;-)
Cheers,
Rob
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
I don't disagree with the message at all, and your argument really shows how much you have all thought through this. I can absolutely appreciate everything you've done both from a statement and storytelling point of view.
Keep it coming, and if you ever need a guest star to seduce T'Lorra, you know where to come. :thumbsup:
I don't disagree with the message at all, and your argument really shows how much you have all thought through this. I can absolutely appreciate everything you've done both from a statement and storytelling point of view.
Keep it coming, and if you ever need a guest star to seduce T'Lorra, you know where to come. :thumbsup:
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
^
Apparently, so do you.
^
Apparently, so do you.
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
Also, more shippey blowey uppy stuff, please. The battles in Odyssey continue the HF tradition of huge fleet battles with a lot of thought going to the FX and the actors' dialogue supporting it. And yeah, the story too. :P
Mark
Also, more shippey blowey uppy stuff, please. The battles in Odyssey continue the HF tradition of huge fleet battles with a lot of thought going to the FX and the actors' dialogue supporting it. And yeah, the story too. :P
Mark
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
I gave it a B. I thought it was good but I thought the ship being trapped in the Andromeda galaxy was to much like Voyager and I thought the actress who played the Romulan was over acting with all the pausing between words for effect. The new ship looks nice and the effects look great. I still haven't finished watching season 6 and 7 of HF so I didn't know that Ro and Aster had finally gotten together (and I like the new Ro) as for the gay scenes, even though I am a straight man, they didn't bother me at all. I know I don't mind two women kissing so why not two guys. I'll keep watching. Oh and keep up the great picture quality, it's the one thing I didn't like about HF.
I gave it a B. I thought it was good but I thought the ship being trapped in the Andromeda galaxy was to much like Voyager and I thought the actress who played the Romulan was over acting with all the pausing between words for effect. The new ship looks nice and the effects look great. I still haven't finished watching season 6 and 7 of HF so I didn't know that Ro and Aster had finally gotten together (and I like the new Ro) as for the gay scenes, even though I am a straight man, they didn't bother me at all. I know I don't mind two women kissing so why not two guys. I'll keep watching. Oh and keep up the great picture quality, it's the one thing I didn't like about HF.
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
Thanks, Darian, that's very kind of you.
To address some of the others here, I confess that I haven't always been happy about the amount of time spent on the gay relationships, either. I am mildly homophobic, and it makes me uncomfortable, sometimes.
I figure that's my personal problem, not Rob's.
That Hidden Frontier treats homosexuals and heterosexuals pretty much equally has always been a source of pride to me; if we sometimes seem to overdo it from my viewpoint, that's a small price to pay. As Rob pointed out, we are one of the very rare programs, professional OR amateur, that treat gays as people. Not as symbols, not as plot points that require them to be gay, not as heroes or scoundrels, just as ordinary people.
I think that's a lesson humanity hasn't learned yet, just as we haven't fully gotten over our skin color prejudices yet, but I think it's a lesson we CAN learn. And if Hidden Frontier was able to bring that day just a little bit closer by portraying an ideal as reality, then I can put up with being uncomfortable now and then and ignoring when we seem (in my view) to be overdoing it a bit.
And there's always the sexy ladies and ship blowey-uppy parts to distract me from my discomfort. Or the occasional macho sword fight or neck-snapping; I kinda like those, too. [grin]
Thanks, Darian, that's very kind of you.
To address some of the others here, I confess that I haven't always been happy about the amount of time spent on the gay relationships, either. I am mildly homophobic, and it makes me uncomfortable, sometimes.
I figure that's my personal problem, not Rob's.
That Hidden Frontier treats homosexuals and heterosexuals pretty much equally has always been a source of pride to me; if we sometimes seem to overdo it from my viewpoint, that's a small price to pay. As Rob pointed out, we are one of the very rare programs, professional OR amateur, that treat gays as people. Not as symbols, not as plot points that require them to be gay, not as heroes or scoundrels, just as ordinary people.
I think that's a lesson humanity hasn't learned yet, just as we haven't fully gotten over our skin color prejudices yet, but I think it's a lesson we CAN learn. And if Hidden Frontier was able to bring that day just a little bit closer by portraying an ideal as reality, then I can put up with being uncomfortable now and then and ignoring when we seem (in my view) to be overdoing it a bit.
And there's always the sexy ladies and ship blowey-uppy parts to distract me from my discomfort. Or the occasional macho sword fight or neck-snapping; I kinda like those, too. [grin]
Re: Star Trek Odyssey 1x01 Iliad Discussion and Grading Thre
The gay stuff never bothered me. HF/ODY as a whole is a generally decent series. I am glad the everyone is a person rather than a symbol/icon. It makes them more human so to speak. I already gave my review on the HF site so I will not repeat it here, needless to say I gave it a B for the same reasons others have stated. Fortunately, there is no one pointing a phaser to one's head saying 'watch this....enjoy the gay stuff, etc. so forth'. One can always stop the vid, send it to the trash/recycle bin and delete if one gets uncomfortable or just does not want to watch. Simple I know.
The gay stuff never bothered me. HF/ODY as a whole is a generally decent series. I am glad the everyone is a person rather than a symbol/icon. It makes them more human so to speak. I already gave my review on the HF site so I will not repeat it here, needless to say I gave it a B for the same reasons others have stated. Fortunately, there is no one pointing a phaser to one's head saying 'watch this....enjoy the gay stuff, etc. so forth'. One can always stop the vid, send it to the trash/recycle bin and delete if one gets uncomfortable or just does not want to watch. Simple I know.
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