Star Trek IV kills me

[Captain Nebula]

So, we've got the crew of the Enterprise in a Klingon Bird of Prey. The planet Earth is being attacked by a probe that wants to talk to whales. And the crew are going to attempt time travel.

If I was Kirk, I would have pulled Spock aside and said:

'You know, we've got a chance here to make a difference. Why don't we try to get back a couple of stardates sooner, send a subspace message to the Reliant and tell Capt. Terrell and Chekov not to beam down to Ceti Alpha 5 and to put up a damn warning beacon like we should have to begin with. Khan won't escape the planet, the Reliant crew won't get stranded, Scotty's nephew would still be alive, the scientists on Regula 1 won't get slaughtered, you won't die from radiation, the Genesis Device won't get detonated and the Genesis planet won't become a galactic controversy, so the Kilingons won't cross the Neutral Zone and kill my son, and we can get the whales to Earth before the probe even shows up so it will turn around and go back to wherever.

I think it's a win, win.'

 

[tomalak301]

Um, that would have destroyed the plot and tone of the entire movie?

 

[Captain Nebula]

It was just a fun observation.

Um, that would have destroyed the plot and tone of the entire movie?

I read that Nick Meyer (the director of Star Trek II) said something similar about Star Trek III ruining Spock dying in Star Trek II.

 

[DonIago]

Having Our Heroes go back in time to undo the events of STII would certainly have been high-concept, but unless you're going to go by multiverse theory you're also talking about creating a paradox - if the events of STII never happen, why would the crew go back in time to try to undo them?

Dramatically speaking, Meyer had somewhat of a point. TSFS is a great reflection of the themes of TWoK, but there's no denying that having Spock return merely one movie later feels like a bit of a cheat, and it's compounded by the events of TVH that essentially serve as a Reset Button. It helps that, at the time at least, Our Heroes pay a steep price for Spock's return.

I find it difficult to judge the whole thing objectively though, as so much of it was motivated by behind-the-scenes developments, and frankly I -was- glad to have Spock back and did feel the crew had earned his return through their sacrifices.

 

[shivkala]

So, we've got the crew of the Enterprise in a Klingon Bird of Prey. The planet Earth is being attacked by a probe that wants to talk to whales. And the crew are going to attempt time travel.

If I was Kirk, I would have pulled Spock aside and said:

'You know, we've got a chance here to make a difference. Why don't we try to get back a couple of stardates sooner, send a subspace message to the Reliant and tell Capt. Terrell and Chekov not to beam down to Ceti Alpha 5 and to put up a damn warning beacon like we should have to begin with. Khan won't escape the planet, the Reliant crew won't get stranded, Scotty's nephew would still be alive, the scientists on Regula 1 won't get slaughtered, you won't die from radiation, the Genesis Device won't get detonated and the Genesis planet won't become a galactic controversy, so the Kilingons won't cross the Neutral Zone and kill my son, and we can get the whales to Earth before the probe even shows up so it will turn around and go back to wherever.

I think it's a win, win.'

Why not go back further and destroy the S.S. Botany Bay before the events of "Space Seed." Or put some sort of warning beacon on it.

In all seriousness, I thought TVH made it clear that they were not interested in altering the timeline, save for the disappearance of two whales. Of course, things didn't go as planned, but that begs a further question...why didn't they just search for humpback whales in the ocean after they constructed the whale tank (other than the fact that it would have been a less interesting movie).

 

[Irishman]

Because then, "Star Trek" would have become "Time Trek", and that's not something THOSE writers could have made well.

It would have degenerated into a space-Nazi, travelling back and forth in time to prevent this and that, and...oh wait...hmmmm

 

[Therin of Andor]

why didn't they just search for humpback whales in the ocean after they constructed the whale tank

George and Gracie were young whales and possibly not full size. And Spock had already mindmelded with one - and explained they needed their help - which is also how Spock knew that Gracie was pregnant. Plus, they were already fitted with transmitters, which is how the Cetacean Institute was planning to track them after release.

 

[Tom]

In all seriousness, I thought TVH made it clear that they were not interested in altering the timeline, save for the disappearance of two whales.

Don't forget Dr. Taylor was removed from her time, and even though she said she had no family she was still relatively young and may have had kids after 1986. Those kids would have had kids etc, etc.. and it could have changed the timeline. At least with Capt. Christopher they could look him up and see his son, that had not been born yet, was going to be a key figure in Earth's future. It could have been the same case with Taylor, but im sure they could not look her up on the Klingon's computer in the BoP. Kirk just said fuck it, and took her anyways when he could have beamed her back down after they grabbed the whales.


It would have been funny, if in the begining of the movie, they had Federation President Taylor ( a decendant of Dr. Taylor) and he really wanted to throw the book and severly punish Kirk and crew for there actions in ST3. Then Kirk comes back with the whales and Dr. Taylor, changing the timeline, they got the more laid back President (since President Taylor would not exist) that you see in the film that just only demotes Kirks. LOL

 

[Tiberius]

So, we've got the crew of the Enterprise in a Klingon Bird of Prey. The planet Earth is being attacked by a probe that wants to talk to whales. And the crew are going to attempt time travel.

If I was Kirk, I would have pulled Spock aside and said:

'You know, we've got a chance here to make a difference. Why don't we try to get back a couple of stardates sooner, send a subspace message to the Reliant and tell Capt. Terrell and Chekov not to beam down to Ceti Alpha 5 and to put up a damn warning beacon like we should have to begin with. Khan won't escape the planet, the Reliant crew won't get stranded, Scotty's nephew would still be alive, the scientists on Regula 1 won't get slaughtered, you won't die from radiation, the Genesis Device won't get detonated and the Genesis planet won't become a galactic controversy, so the Kilingons won't cross the Neutral Zone and kill my son, and we can get the whales to Earth before the probe even shows up so it will turn around and go back to wherever.

I think it's a win, win.'

Which was done! And so, Spock didn't die, Kirk had no need to send Spock's body down to the Genesis planet, and so had no need to destroy the Enterprise during the rescue mission. And then, no need to steal the Klingon BoP. Thus, Kirk couldn't use the BoP to travel back in time, meaning he didn't get the whales, meaning the probe came along and kicked earth's ass and Kirk, Spock and everyone else died on earth.

 

[shivkala]

In all seriousness, I thought TVH made it clear that they were not interested in altering the timeline, save for the disappearance of two whales.

Don't forget Dr. Taylor was removed from her time, and even though she said she had no family she was still relatively young and may have had kids after 1986. Those kids would have had kids etc, etc.. and it could have changed the timeline. At least with Capt. Christopher they could look him up and see his son, that had not been born yet, was going to be a key figure in Earth's future. It could have been the same case with Taylor, but im sure they could not look her up on the Klingon's computer in the BoP. Kirk just said fuck it, and took her anyways when he could have beamed her back down after they grabbed the whales.

I meant to say, initially. At the beginning, Kirk didn't seem to want to interfere with history. Of course, then Dr. Taylor came along, Scotty gave away the information on how transparent aluminum was made, Chekov and his 23rd century equipment was captured, McCoy regenerated a woman's kidney, etc.

 

[DonIago]

Eh. Predestination Paradox. Or they sidestepped into an alternate timeline.

 

[USS Excelsior]

And Kirk's glasses were never created, they just go round and round in a time loop.

 

[DonIago]

Heh. That one's just silly.

 

[Tiberius]

And Kirk's glasses were never created, they just go round and round in a time loop.

Now there's a question...

1. McCoy gives Kirk some glasses.
2. Kirk and co travel back in time.
3. Kirk sells glasses to shopkeeper to get some money.
4. Shopkeeper puts glasses for sale.
5. Glasses pass through many owners (presumably).
6. Glasses eventually purchased by one Leonard H McCoy.
7. McCoy gives glasses to Kirk as birthday present.
8. Kirk and co travel back in time.
9. Repeat ad nauseum.

So where the hell did those damn glasses come from?

 

[USS Excelsior]

Kirk says the glasses will be his again when he sells them but that doesn't make it true.

 

[DonIago]

Besides, since Kirk and crew traveled into an alternate timeline, the most that could be said is that they would become the possession of an alternate Kirk in the future.

The real question is what happened to the Kirk and Co. inhabiting the timeline that Our Kirk and Co. traveled into.

 

[Tiberius]

And what happened to the earth of the timeline that they left from.

 

[plynch]

This gives me headaches, heeeeewwwww!

http://www.minorlooneytunes.com/pictures/pete010.jpg

 

[DonIago]

And what happened to the earth of the timeline that they left from.

Don't worry, it was saved by the NuOur Heroes.

 

[Knight Templar]

In the excellent Star Trek novel "First Frontier" it was suggested that traveling back in time stresses a starship severely and the further back you go, the greater the stresses.

This could be a key limiting factor and an answer to all the questions about "why didn't they go back in time further" that we deal with a lot.