Star Trek is dead; Long live Star Trek

[O'Dib]

I saw the movie last night with two non-trekkie friends. They were blown away, and made it a point to tell me how much they loved it, as if to validate my obsession. I just smiled, as my feelings were somewhat more mixed. Yeah, I was thoroughly entertained, but this was no longer the Trek I was used to. I cannot pinpoint what it was about the original Star Trek that made it so devotion-worthy for me. At the danger of sounding like a fan from the Onion spoof report, it must've been the depth of the storytelling, which was noticeably missing here. And the familiarity. The casts that we got so comfortable with, that we followed their exploits for decades, literally. The ever-evolving universe one could become fully immersed in. Here, the look and shape of everything from ships to set designs to casting, while familiar (and fantastic), felt slightly off. I guess I just need to get used to it. Although, no longer knowing what to expect from Trek gives it a whole new dimension of excitement that I haven't felt in a very long time. Since Enterprise came out I guess. That ended up feeling too familiar, in fact.

I think some of the movie's gags and twists fell flat for me cause I was anticipating this so much, I became thoroughly spoiled by all the promo material. I need to see it again. And by the time the sequel comes around (I'm SO looking forward to it), with the messy origin story out of the way, I think this new Trek will feel fully authentic. I didn't feel quite at home until the very end of the movie, when everything fell into place. Kirk as captain, the whole crew at their rightful positions. It'll be cool if they take a page from the new Batman naming philosophy, something that is recognizably Trek, without Trek in the title. Like To Boldly Go, or whatever. And seeing as how this is a reboot, will they create new twists on classic villains? Revisit Khan? I can't wait. Star Trek is dead. Long live Star Trek.

 

[Captain Pike]

Personally, I hope they don't have Khan in any of the sequels. I never thought he was that good of a villain, but that's just me I guess.

I'm thinking they may go with Klingons in the next one, but who knows it could be anything.

 

[Gertch]

Star Trek is dead. Long live Star Trek.

I can't agree. This movie put the paddles on the franchise. Damnit, I think JJ might have just cured the common cold.

 

[erebus]

at the risk of being condemed as a heretic or something, i wouldn't mind if NONE of the previous characters, baddies etc were revisited. That route would seem to fall into the same trap that made the franchise stagnate in the first place as it struggled with carrying its old baggage.

They can go anywhere now, they can build naturally from what they have created and i'm sure that will bring us new delights and insight.

'whats the point of rehashing that subject' when we've got a whole new universe and timeline to play with. Besides, its probably more likely to evolve completely differently according to chaos theory but then that will highlight more those enduring qualities we have grown to endear.

 

[bismarck_1892]

I saw the movie last night with two non-trekkie friends. They were blown away, and made it a point to tell me how much they loved it, as if to validate my obsession. I just smiled, as my feelings were somewhat more mixed. Yeah, I was thoroughly entertained, but this was no longer the Trek I was used to. I cannot pinpoint what it was about the original Star Trek that made it so devotion-worthy for me. At the danger of sounding like a fan from the Onion spoof report, it must've been the depth of the storytelling, which was noticeably missing here. And the familiarity. The casts that we got so comfortable with, that we followed their exploits for decades, literally. The ever-evolving universe one could become fully immersed in. Here, the look and shape of everything from ships to set designs to casting, while familiar (and fantastic), felt slightly off. I guess I just need to get used to it. Although, no longer knowing what to expect from Trek gives it a whole new dimension of excitement that I haven't felt in a very long time. Since Enterprise came out I guess. That ended up feeling too familiar, in fact.

I think some of the movie's gags and twists fell flat for me cause I was anticipating this so much, I became thoroughly spoiled by all the promo material. I need to see it again. And by the time the sequel comes around (I'm SO looking forward to it), with the messy origin story out of the way, I think this new Trek will feel fully authentic. I didn't feel quite at home until the very end of the movie, when everything fell into place. Kirk as captain, the whole crew at their rightful positions. It'll be cool if they take a page from the new Batman naming philosophy, something that is recognizably Trek, without Trek in the title. Like To Boldly Go, or whatever. And seeing as how this is a reboot, will they create new twists on classic villains? Revisit Khan? I can't wait. Star Trek is dead. Long live Star Trek.

I wish I could be as forgiving as you but nope can't. The could have made a great movie, and sequels without going as far as they did in changing what happened. Everything was fine for me, until they destroyed Vulcan. I was willing to take a lot, but (as silly as it sounds) not that.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I wish I could be as forgiving as you but nope can't. The could have made a great movie, and sequels without going as far as they did in changing what happened. Everything was fine for me, until they destroyed Vulcan. I was willing to take a lot, but (as silly as it sounds) not that.

Oh my. I feel really, really sorry for you. Because it sounds to me like you've been hit by the reset button so many times, you've developed a bizarre craving for it.

I for one am glad for the destruction of Vulcan. Big explosion! Emotional moments! Consequences! And best of all: the characters have to live with what's happened every single day. I loved it.

 

[Rii]

Star Trek was essentially dead to me before this film. I'd had some good times with the franchise, but I was done with it and had no issues moving on. This film was both a heartwarming nostalgia trip whilst also opening the door for a reinvigoration of the franchise. Whilst it certainly didn't get everything right, it got enough right that I'd like to see much of the same team behind the wheel again.

 

[bismarck_1892]

I wish I could be as forgiving as you but nope can't. The could have made a great movie, and sequels without going as far as they did in changing what happened. Everything was fine for me, until they destroyed Vulcan. I was willing to take a lot, but (as silly as it sounds) not that.

Oh my. I feel really, really sorry for you. Because it sounds to me like you've been hit by the reset button so many times, you've developed a bizarre craving for it.

I for one am glad for the destruction of Vulcan. Big explosion! Emotional moments! Consequences! And best of all: the characters have to live with what's happened every single day. I loved it.

Yeah, I didn't see too many emotional moments or brain etc... It was an action flick that's why so many people seem to like it. Lot of space battles and faser battles etc... Special effects.... etc...

 

[Tulin]

at the risk of being condemed as a heretic or something, i wouldn't mind if NONE of the previous characters, baddies etc were revisited. That route would seem to fall into the same trap that made the franchise stagnate in the first place as it struggled with carrying its old baggage.

They can go anywhere now, they can build naturally from what they have created and i'm sure that will bring us new delights and insight.

'whats the point of rehashing that subject' when we've got a whole new universe and timeline to play with. Besides, its probably more likely to evolve completely differently according to chaos theory but then that will highlight more those enduring qualities we have grown to endear.

I hate to rain on your parade but you mention the evolution of ST now and where they can go - if you are referring solely to the movie series, they really cannot go very far at all.

Look at it this way - for more than twenty years now, people have been used to getting WEEKLY doses of ST. They have been used to the universe growing and evolving throught THE YEAR. Major things can happen in even a couple of episodes, let alone from one series to the next. Look where the ST universe was at TNG's pilot(relatively peaceful)to where it was around season six of DS9.

Big differences, huh?

Compare that now to what can reasonably be done in a movie series. Let's say they can make three more films with this group of people. Also factor in that, now that we(apparently)have Joe SixPack on board, that these films will STILL have to cater to the quarterback and his cheerleader g/f set from Podunk NC.

Now bearing ALL of THAT in mind, how much do you REALLY expect to see a fully textured ST universe growing and developing over the next 2-3 films and the next 4-6 years?

Will we see the fleshed out politics of the Federation? Joe SixPacks don't like politics.

Will we see something like the Bajoran/Cardassian situation be explored(I said LIKE - not the exact same thing - lower those phasers!!!) Joe SixPacks don't take too kindly to allegory and messages in their entertainment.


No, chances are more likely than not we will see what we have been seeing with the last three or so TNG films - the "BIG BAD" of the moment will turn up, there will be LOTS of 'splosions and effects and THE BIG BAD will be defeated and the ship will warp off. There simply is NOT the time to do much more to service this universe(in a film series). There is also not the expectation on the part of this new audience we have inherited(which most of you are now welcoming with broad open arms, but may come to resent as the albatross now around ST's neck that demands IT'S new STAR TREK, as it now sees it)to see deeper and more meaningful stories like ST used to do.


In any case - NOTHING can be explored as deeply for two hours every two years rather than twenty six hours every year.

 

[RAMA]

I wish I could be as forgiving as you but nope can't. The could have made a great movie, and sequels without going as far as they did in changing what happened. Everything was fine for me, until they destroyed Vulcan. I was willing to take a lot, but (as silly as it sounds) not that.

Oh my. I feel really, really sorry for you. Because it sounds to me like you've been hit by the reset button so many times, you've developed a bizarre craving for it.

I for one am glad for the destruction of Vulcan. Big explosion! Emotional moments! Consequences! And best of all: the characters have to live with what's happened every single day. I loved it.

Yeah, I didn't see too many emotional moments or brain etc... It was an action flick that's why so many people seem to like it. Lot of space battles and faser battles etc... Special effects.... etc...

I don't see it that way. This movie had lots of heart and was not dumb.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=91668

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

In any case - NOTHING can be explored as deeply for two hours every two years rather than twenty six hours every year.

Oh yes, that's certainly true. "Joe Sixpack" isn't dumb, but the time alloted to a movie is simply to short to tell intricate, epic and overarching tales. Though they did a great job with this movie.

However, a few movies would be sufficient to draw enough of a crowd to make it possible again to start a new series.

And that would be fantastic.

 

[Tulin]

If the series was done right, yes, it would.

If it were more of VOY and ENT then, no thank you.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

If the series was done right, yes, it would.

If it were more of VOY and ENT then, no thank you.

That's the whole point why some people are so shaken up by this movie. By the time VOY and ENT aired, most life had left the franchise. It got all bogged down by it's own continuity and collection of reset buttons.

The fact that Vulcan exploded tells me, in no uncertain terms, that any movie or series that will be made after this will be wonderful.

 

[Phily B]

I don't really understand, the only difference between this Star Trek and the others is the budget. The only other problem is that we're not really used to these guys as the actors, but I think they did a fantastic job and were full convincing as their characters - especially young versions. The films have never really been like the show, and when they have they have sucked balls.

 

[O'Dib]

at the risk of being condemed as a heretic or something, i wouldn't mind if NONE of the previous characters, baddies etc were revisited. That route would seem to fall into the same trap that made the franchise stagnate in the first place as it struggled with carrying its old baggage.

They can go anywhere now, they can build naturally from what they have created and i'm sure that will bring us new delights and insight.

'whats the point of rehashing that subject' when we've got a whole new universe and timeline to play with. Besides, its probably more likely to evolve completely differently according to chaos theory but then that will highlight more those enduring qualities we have grown to endear.

The thing is, the movie series will continue to pander to fans and nuFans alike. So we can expect to keep seeing races and plot elements of TOS that are widely known in pop culture. Here we got Kirk and green chicks, Scotty and beaming, and so on. As such, I wouldn't be surprised with a TWOK rehash, something the franchise has tried to accomplish, unsuccesfully, on several occasions. I mean, it is widely known as not only a great Trek movie, but a great movie, period, because of its villain. And here's an opportunity to Do a nuTrek II with an actual Khan. I would frankly be surprised if they didn't go for it. Considering the budget and the licence to turn everything on its head, I highly doubt it would feel stale. Look at how Ledger's Joker turned out.

 

[Finnegan]

Ultimately, I think the destruction of Vulcan will be good thing for the future of Trek, and will be one of the things that will continue to reinvigorate it.

Spoiler: spoiler alert!

Along with the death of his Mother

, Spock will have something very recent and horrible to grapple with, and will give many interesting acting choices to Quinto when plumbing the depths of "his" Spock's inner turmoils and emotions.

Old Spock even stated that he had

Spoiler: spoiler

found a suitable planet for the surviving Vulcans to colonize

--that could be a major new plotline in itself for the franchise. I see so many great new directions for the franchise to explore--thanks to JJ Abrams and his courage to shake things up a bit.

 

[Lokhtar]

Why were 99.999% of Vulcans on a single planet anyway? Don't they have...colonies?

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Personally, I hope they don't have Khan in any of the sequels. I never thought he was that good of a villain, but that's just me I guess.

I'm thinking they may go with Klingons in the next one, but who knows it could be anything.

I'm not all that impressed with Khan, myself.

Anyway, I didn't once think "hm, that's whatshisname playing Kirk", no. It was Kirk. It was Spock. It was Scotty. They own those characters now. It was better than I'd hoped.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Why were 99.999% of Vulcans on a single planet anyway? Don't they have...colonies?

It was never explicitly stated that the 10.000 survivors were all that's left. Just that they, you know, were survivors. Could be all those whom they managed to rescue from Vulcan itself.

 

[Finnegan]

Why were 99.999% of Vulcans on a single planet anyway? Don't they have...colonies?

They must have. You would think for an advanced, space faring civilization many millions of them would have been off-planet at the time of it's destruction. Would a BSG type of a "rag-tag" fleet of survivors be a good or bad thing to show in the next movie?