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Star Trek is dead – long live Star Trek

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It’s official; Star Trek as we knew it is dead. New Star Trek is here. Is that really a bad thing? I don’t think so. Star Trek was creatively on its way down in Voyager. Too much techobabble; a lousy, contrived finale; and a huge missed opportunity of showing what happens to the crew and the ship AFTER returning home put Star Trek down the slippery slope.

Enterprise had a chance to put things back on the right track by showing Trek history we’ve never seen before, a greater emphasis on TOS events/characters/species, and a new design ethic that would show the way to TOS design. Unfortunately, none of that happened with Enterprise until it was too late. Enterprise rehashed old plots and enemies (ferengi/borg/etc), and played fast and loose with canon. It didn’t live up to it’s potential until the last two seasons.

And now there are new powers-that-be behind Star Trek, and a radical reinterpretation of the design ethos. Finally, some real story points and images from the movie are coming out. What they make clear is that anyone hoping for a faithful but updated rendering of TOS, combined with a respect for the canon, will probably be disappointed.

But let me say one thing – I like what I see. The cast, uniforms, bridge and ship designs we’ve seen so far look nice. Do they look like the Star Trek we know? No, not in my opinion. Aside from the great looking uniforms and the general ship designs we’ve seen it is clear that they did not take a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” approach. I’m sad that Wah Chang’s excellent designs for phasers, communicators, etc are likely to be cast aside.

Here are a few excerpts from the Entertainment Weekly article that show how things are changing: The phasers are now sleek silver gizmos with spring-triggered barrels that revolve and glow in the transition from ''stun'' to ''kill.'' Sounds like prequel Star Wars more than Star Trek. Put Han Solo’s gun next to Jango Fett’s and I suspect we’ll be able to make the same comparison.

Abrams says that creatively, he was engaged by the possibility of a Star Trek movie ''that grabbed me the way Star Wars did.” Um, Star Trek is not Star Wars, nor does it need to be to find appeal. This approach worries me.

Quote: More ambitiously, the movie subversively plays with Trek lore — and those who know it. The opening sequence, for example, is an emotionally wrenching passage that culminates with a mythic climax sure to leave zealots howling ''Heresy!'' But revisionism anxiety is the point. ''The movie,'' Lindelof says, ''is about the act of changing what you know.''
If that doesn’t say it all, I don’t know what does.

One thing that you would assume they would screw with as little as possible for Star Trek fans is TOS Enterprise. Several people have posted versions of the ship in the art forum here that show a more updated and credible Enterprise that appears to be far truer to the TOS ship than the one Abrams has created (based on what we've seen so far), and they look great. If you haven’t seen Vektor’s reinterpretation of TOS ship you’re missing out. Per the article: case in point: The Enterprise still has a saucer front section and pronged rear engines, but now comes tricked out with credibility-enhancing details. Can’t wait to see those.

''There were days when I would look around the set, with all these tattooed faces and pointy ears, bizarre weaponry and Romulan linguists, with dialogue about 'Neutral Zones' and 'Starfleet' — and I would start sweating,'' he says. Why? I don’t think Robert Wise or Nicholas Meyer started sweating it. Those things are part of Star Trek, part of the mythos. Embrace them, respect them, don’t reject them.

So, I think at this point it is pretty obvious that Star Trek as we know/knew it is gone. And that’s fine. It had some real problems towards the end, but it seems in trying to get past those that Abrams and crew might have rejected or redone a lot of things that didn’t need it. It’s no wonder they used a time travel story, despite how severly overused it has been in Trek. They need that opening to change the Trek universe.

I’m heartened by a few things. One, they said they’re more concerned with simply making a good movie. Good to hear. Too bad every filmmaker doesn’t look at it that way. Two, there will be a lot of Trek tidbits that we’ll pick up on and enjoy. And three, I’m happy to revisit TOS characters. I think the Kirk/Spock/Bones dynamic is the most interesting and important in Star Trek.

Abrams proved to me with MI-3 that he’s a good director, and can get good things out of talented actors. I fully expect this to be a good movie, and if we look at it as Star Trek 2009 instead of Star Trek I think we’ll all walk out happy.
 
Gee, I agree with just about everything you posted. :techman:

The bad news for traditionalists is that there's no more of Trek 1.0 - but Hell, there's something like seven or eight hundred hours of it for fans to enjoy endlessly. Expecting all of that to continue ad infinitum was never realistic - and insisting that any other vision of or approach to "Star Trek" ought to be forever subsumed to the endless repetition-with-variation of traditional "Star Trek" is more than just a little greedy.
 
Anyone who thinks that Trek 1.0 could carry on for another 40 years is delusional or downright stupid. Time for the torch to be passed for a new generation.
 
I wonder if this goes far enough. I'd like to see a serious reboot of the franchise -- updating the ship, its crew, the species they encounter, everything with new ideas in science and science fiction from the forty-plus years since the original. The only things I'd keep are an optimistic view of the future, a space ship on a deep-space mission, and the camaraderie of her crew. Maybe keep a semblance of the original crew. From there, let writers make up an entirely new mythos, borrowing from the existing franchise if necessary, but I'd want only the best writers making those kinds of choices. Are Vulcans still green-blooded? Do Klingons still exist? Is the ship sentient? Are humans immortal? The answers to these questions would be unknown to the viewer and answered only with the passage of time and fresh installments.
 
Anyone who thinks that Trek 1.0 could carry on for another 40 years is delusional or downright stupid. Time for the torch to be passed for a new generation.

Yes, a torch is indeed needed... but not for just passing it on ;)

Seriously. A new approach to Trek is very much needed and welcome (by some at least).
 
Bring it on. I'm up for New Trek as opposed to No Trek.

Try as I may to enjoy the fan projects. Bring on the official Trek.
 
I wonder if this goes far enough. I'd like to see a serious reboot of the franchise -- updating the ship, its crew, the species they encounter, everything with new ideas in science and science fiction from the forty-plus years since the original.

Playing devils advocate with you a little, at that point why even call it Star Trek any more?
 
Playing devils advocate with you a little, at that point why even call it Star Trek any more?

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. If they wanted to create new Trek it should be on a different ship with a different crew that doesn't contradict or reboot anything.
 
Re: Star Trek is dead – long live Star Trek

Playing devils advocate with you a little, at that point why even call it Star Trek any more?

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. If they wanted to create new Trek it should be on a different ship with a different crew that doesn't contradict or reboot anything.

Unless I'm mistaken he's referring to Psion's argument that a new version of "Star Trek" should ditch everything but the concept - not to Abrams' movie. As for the movie, it's about Kirk and Spock and McCoy aboard the starship Enterprise - that makes it easier to justify as "Star Trek" than, say, DS9 would be. ;)
 
Playing devils advocate with you a little, at that point why even call it Star Trek any more?

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. If they wanted to create new Trek it should be on a different ship with a different crew that doesn't contradict or reboot anything.


But then you're still beholden to all the guff of the previous 40 years.

It's not like Paramount are going to burn everyone's videos of the previous series and films, even if they don't directly reference the new films. Let's just wait and see.
 
I think the spin off shows are going to fade into obscurity.

Let's face it, Captain Kirk is THE icon.

Like James Bond.

Like Batman.

Like Superman.

I think the future of Trek is going to be constant reinvention.

I don't like the new Batmobile. But I love The Dark Knight.

Equally I don't like the new bridge (so far.) But will it stop me loving this reinvention? Hell no, so long as the story is good and the actors deliver.
 
I think the spin off shows are going to fade into obscurity.

Let's face it, Captain Kirk is THE icon.

Like James Bond.

Like Batman.

Like Superman.

I think the future of Trek is going to be constant reinvention.

I don't like the new Batmobile. But I love The Dark Knight.

Equally I don't like the new bridge (so far.) But will it stop me loving this reinvention? Hell no, so long as the story is good and the actors deliver.

I, for one, would love a James Bond/Batman-approach to Trek. :techman:
 
I think the spin off shows are going to fade into obscurity.

Let's face it, Captain Kirk is THE icon.

Like James Bond.

Like Batman.

Like Superman.

I think the future of Trek is going to be constant reinvention.

I don't like the new Batmobile. But I love The Dark Knight.

Equally I don't like the new bridge (so far.) But will it stop me loving this reinvention? Hell no, so long as the story is good and the actors deliver.

Again playing devil's advocate, I think there's one minor flaw in this analogy. These people, Batman, Bond, Superman, were fictional literary characters BEFORE we ever saw them on the big screen or TV.

Star Trek TOS and the characters in Star Trek have been played by only one set of actors from the beginning, and the stories have (more or less) followed well, one canon if you will.

I'm not saying it can't survive a reinvention, or reboot or whatever you want to call it. I'm not saying this movie won't be good in it's own right. But I'm just saying this case is a little different than these other examples and I'm not sure I'd hold them up as a comparison. For better or worse, Shatner, Nimoy, et al, ARE Star Trek (at least up until this point).
 
I wonder if this goes far enough. I'd like to see a serious reboot of the franchise -- updating the ship, its crew, the species they encounter, everything with new ideas in science and science fiction from the forty-plus years since the original.

Playing devils advocate with you a little, at that point why even call it Star Trek any more?

Because I don't think the value of Star Trek is especially wedded to outdated special effects and wooden sets. Star Trek, as a concept, transcends any particular set or group of actors. This is clearly demonstrated with shows like TNG or DS9 which successfully told the show in a different setting. Keep the core values, and I think you've still got Star Trek. Set it on a starship named Enterprise and name her captain "Kirk". But take the rest of the show in the same direction you would as if Star Trek were just being developed for the first time today. Does Spock have psychic powers? Back in the sixties, ESP and the paranormal were an important element of science fiction, and seriously studied by science. Today, there's a lot less serious interest and psychic powers are largely considered fantasy. How do we give Spock something special in return for robbing him of his mind-meld? These are the sorts of questions that need to be faced in a revamp, not the color of the uniforms or the brightness of the bridge.

Why call this new show "Star Trek"? Because it's a serious attempt to remake the original as a modern, quality science-fiction-adventure series. You'll know going in that certain fundamentals will hold true, but the sense of mystery and exploring the unknown will once again be part of the franchise.
 
Star Trek has not died, it has evolved.

Even if it turns out history is changed those changes start at the end of the original timeline, that timeline still exists up to the point it changes. (assuming it does change)
 
I wonder if this goes far enough. I'd like to see a serious reboot of the franchise -- updating the ship, its crew, the species they encounter, everything with new ideas in science and science fiction from the forty-plus years since the original.

Playing devils advocate with you a little, at that point why even call it Star Trek any more?

Because I don't think the value of Star Trek is especially wedded to outdated special effects and wooden sets. Star Trek, as a concept, transcends any particular set or group of actors. This is clearly demonstrated with shows like TNG or DS9 which successfully told the show in a different setting. Keep the core values, and I think you've still got Star Trek. Set it on a starship named Enterprise and name her captain "Kirk". But take the rest of the show in the same direction you would as if Star Trek were just being developed for the first time today. Does Spock have psychic powers? Back in the sixties, ESP and the paranormal were an important element of science fiction, and seriously studied by science. Today, there's a lot less serious interest and psychic powers are largely considered fantasy today. How do we give Spock something special in return for robbing him of his mind-meld? These are the sorts of questions that need to be faced in a revamp, not the color of the uniforms or the brightness of the bridge.

Why call this new show "Star Trek"? Because it's a serious attempt to remake the original as a modern, quality science-fiction-adventure series. You'll know going in that certain fundamentals will hold true, but the sense of mystery and exploring the unknown will once again be part of the franchise.

I wasn't talking about this specific movie, I was talking about your assertion that that we pretty much throw out everything and start over. I'm saying when you do that, then it's a different series and there's no point in calling it Star Trek.
 
Psion;2188251 [I said:
Star Trek[/I], as a concept, transcends any particular set or group of actors.

Ah, there's our problem. Star Trek is not a concept to me, it's the title of a TV and Movie franchise.
 
I wasn't talking about this specific movie, I was talking about your assertion that that we pretty much throw out everything and start over. I'm saying when you do that, then it's a different series and there's no point in calling it Star Trek.

Nor was I speaking of this specific movie. As you'll recall, I started off by wondering if this movie doesn't do enough. And I've given you my reasons to continue calling my proposed revamp Star Trek.
 
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