STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If you've got the glass ball that lets you see they don't turn into a world full of Reavers or Breen or Imperial space nazis, that can justify intervention, assuming you are willing to play God with history. But revealing the giant metal bird to them at an impressionable time is monstrous.

Kirk might be condemning them to millions of years of religious strife.

That's impossible to predict. The important thing is that they are alive. They are an intelligent species - I see no reason not to trust them to work things out eventually.

One question, though: At one point, Kirk and McCoy are running from the aliens and Kirk suddenly slaps a tapestry with alien-looking writing on it, on a tree. Why does he do this? To slow the aliens down?

 

[BillJ]

One question, though: At one point, Kirk and McCoy are running from the aliens and Kirk suddenly slaps a tapestry with alien-looking writing on it, on a tree. Why does he do this? To slow the aliens down?

According to the novel it was a religious scroll Kirk stole from a temple near the base of the volcano. He used it to lure them away from their village which was getting pulverized by volcanic debris.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Does the movie mention Section 31 altering Khan's appearance?

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that Khan was given plastic surgery, since he's still a wanted war criminal in the 23rd century and his face is most likely very recognizable from historical texts.

What Star Trek needs is not another makeover, it needs to return to the basics: science, politics, spirituality and morality. Yes, add in a bit more drama and action, yes have a decent pace, but each movie and (hopefully) new episode needs to have a lot more food for thought. Even with the bad Trek movies and episodes you always stopped to think about what was going on even if that alien race was cheesy or things didn't quite gel.

Oh please. This movie isn't any different than the last twelve ones, or the various series itself! Here's a reminder:

(TMP) Somewhat cerebral. Mostly a 2001 knockoff. Illia in a ridiculously short skirt.
TWOK) Revenge. Explosions. Getting old. KHAAAAAAAN! A FUCK TON of Pew!Pew!
TSFS) GE-NE-SIS?! Kirk's son killed. Get out! Get out of there! Lots of Pew!Pew!
TVH) They are not the hell your whales. One damn minute, Admiral.
TFF) Three boobed cat stripper. Sha-ka-ree. Lots of Pew!Pew!
TUC) Racism. Cold War. Shakespeare. Lots of Pew!Pew!
GEN) Fantasy land. Duras Sisters. Enterprise go Boom. Lots of Pew!Pew!
FC) BOOM! Sweaty Borg. Sexual healing. Drunks. A METRIC FUCK TON of Pew!Pew!
INS) Face lift. Forced relocation. F. Murray Abraham on a couch. Lots of poorly paced Pew!Pew!
NEM) Dune buggy. Mentally deficient android. Slowly moving doom device. Lots of random Pew!Pew!

I have highlighted two of the most popular pre-JJ Trek movies in the fandom.
Trek was an action franchise from the second movie installment onward. To suggest otherwise is to completely ignore everything beyond The Motion Picture.

 

[Flake]

There is lots of pew pew in Star Trek, certainly on a par with that other Star thing.

They only don't pew pew in the TV show when they can't afford it

pew pew sells

 

[Shaka Zulu]

This article at Trekmovie says that the females weren't served well by the movie:

As per usual Star Trek Into Darkness has sparked much fan discussion and even disagreement, but but if there’s one thing we can all agree on: we love seeing Alice Eve in her undies! True, of course, until anyone bothered to ask a woman. There has always been scantily clad females throughout Trek history – it’s a part of what makes Kirk so Kirk – so, why should this one scene be causing such a stir? Why have female fans responded so strongly in this case?

Sexy or Sexist? How Star Trek Into Darkness turned Heroines into Damsels in Distress

 

[Greylock Crescent]

There is lots of pew pew in Star Trek, certainly on a par with that other Star thing.

They only don't pew pew in the TV show when they can't afford it

pew pew sells

Except, of course, in this film, the Enterprise doesn't pew pew. Not even once. Its crew pew pews only four times: at Starfleet command after being ambushed; on Kronos; to stun baddies and Khan on the Vengeance; and to stun Khan in San Fran.

So while the Enterprise does get pummeled for a bit ... this is hardly a shoot-em-up flick.

 

[elric428]

Interesting reviews below...

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62468

http://collider.com/star-trek-into-darkness-review/

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/trekxi.htm#stid

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Hi - my husband and I just saw STID and I have an initial question - why did Kirk and Spock seem to not really know who Kahn was? I thought the Eugenics Wars still happened in this timeline (in some form or another). Wouldn't there be some information in the Enterprise computers if they input the name Kahn? Or did they just need a reason to bring in Nimoy for a cameo?

Neither Kirk nor Spock had any idea who Khan was in "Space Seed," either - it most of the first half of the episode for them to arrive at that tentatively and then try to draw him out in conversation.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Interesting reviews below...

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/trekxi.htm#stid

The presentation of this review makes it very hard to read. White text against black and small type.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Interesting reviews below...

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62468

http://collider.com/star-trek-into-darkness-review/

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/trekxi.htm#stid

There's nothing interesting about that kind of fanboy ranting, sorry. Since reviews are running about nine to one positive for this flick, whatever little damage a bad fan review might do to some hypothetical movie is completely meaningless here.

 

[Therin of Andor]

They still publish Cinefex??

Sure do!
http://www.cinefex.com/

Something I've noticed the four screenings I've seen: Kirk stumbles over Carol's surname in the last scene, calling her "Dr Marius". Makes me wonder if it was just Chris Pine slurring, or if the script actually indicated that Carol was again avoiding the Marcus name, being tainted as it is now.

The novelization says "Marcus" in the passage.

 

[indranee]

Hi - my husband and I just saw STID and I have an initial question - why did Kirk and Spock seem to not really know who Kahn was? I thought the Eugenics Wars still happened in this timeline (in some form or another). Wouldn't there be some information in the Enterprise computers if they input the name Kahn? Or did they just need a reason to bring in Nimoy for a cameo?

Thanks!

God knows what results they would get when they input Kahn. Or Khan for that matter.

I find it absolutely plausible that Kirk and co. wouldn't know who Khan was.

I'd disagree only in the sense that if the Eugenics Wars still happened, then not knowing about Khan, especially for a member of Starfleet, would be like me not knowing who Stalin or Hitler were. Possible, but kind of odd. My husband also thought of Marcus wiping the record, but Khan was so (in)famous - nobody would know about him?

But even if the Wars did happen, Khan and his cryogenic "army" wasn't an open secret or anything. The only reason the Prime Universe/Timeline got to know about Khan was because the Enterprise encountered them.

 

[indranee]

It was a good movie for what it was. It was definitely not the best Trek. It was too chessy when Spock yells out "Khan!!" I don't why he was, it was Admiral Marcus who crippled the ship and caused the power loss. Khan had just taken control of the Vengeance. I just cant get used to that Beer factory engineering section. There is too much going on with it for a future space ship. Maybe theyre a starship/micro brewery.

Did you SEE STID?

STID engineering was not filmed at the "brewery". It was filmed at NIF.

https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2013/May/NR-13-05-05.html

 

[Therin of Andor]

STID engineering was not filmed at the "brewery". It was filmed at NIF.

But the area where Uhura worked in the first movie, before her promotion to the bridge, did appear again in STiD. ie, filmed at the brewery.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Today when I watched the movie for the fifth time I noticed that McCoy manages to get those 72 cryo tubes out of the torpedoes in about 5 minutes. Spock did order all the medical and engineering staff to the bay though so maybe there are soooo many of them they just did one tube each with people shouting instructions.

 

[throwback]

Admiral Buzzkill

If you are a fan of Star Trek, then automatically you are a fanboy and a fangirl. This name calling doesn't help anyone.

Considering that the majority of people who have seen the film are Star Trek fans, I think it's important to consider that, if the franchise is to grow, that it will need them. I agree that some fans are overly critical of the film. However, some fans have raised legitimate concerns. I would think it would be wise for those who make the next film to consider some of these concerns, not all, and address them for the next film.

Legitimate concerns - This film is repeating what has happen before in the last film, and is having a villain that seeks revenge for a wrong committed against him. We had Shinzon, Nero, and Khan. We have seen the same story arc for Kirk twice. Do something new.

Illegitimate concerns - The escape pods from the last movie are forgotten. Now the crew has to escape by means of evac shuttles.

I have seen gushing reviews for products that are seriously flawed in video games. Skyrim was a beta test product that was released to the general public and required many patches for it to work decently, yet it won Game of the Year accolades. Mass Effect 3 was a game that alienated some of the fan base with its contrived and non-nonsensical ending, yet it was rated very highly. My point is, reviews by professional reviewers should be viewed skeptically. My point is, if someone is gushing about a film, taking that opinion of it to an extreme - this is the greatest thing since sliced bread territory, that person should be viewed skeptically. Everything is flawed, even the great works of Homer and Shakespeare are flawed.

I think if we examine the flaws, raise legitimate concerns, and, the people who are in charge, actually pay attention to those concerns and address them, that the process works. I think sometimes that the people in charge sometimes dismiss those who support their product and I think this goes to their detriment.

I would like to see in the next film a new story arc for Kirk. I would like to see in the next film a villain with a different motivation.

 

[Belz...]

If you've got the glass ball that lets you see they don't turn into a world full of Reavers or Breen or Imperial space nazis, that can justify intervention, assuming you are willing to play God with history. But revealing the giant metal bird to them at an impressionable time is monstrous.

Kirk might be condemning them to millions of years of religious strife, and I don't know that is better than letting life evolve anew there after the volcano plays out (assuming it really killed everyone, which sounds a little O-T-T ... is the volcano going to cause non-nuclear winter for the whole world?)

I disagree. You agree that the Prime Directive is ridiculous. I say, not because it's unenforceable, but because it's a silly principle. What does "destiny" mean anyway ? I agree you shouldn't make contact with non-warp-capable planets, but between letting all life on a world die, I think that was a minor offense. Calling it "monstrous" is a bloated hyperbole, at best.

Would you have let them die ? Not me.

 

[mattman8907]

i always like the prologues because you had a Kirk involved in the event.

 

[throwback]

The Classic Trek establishes that a captain does have discretionary powers with the Prime Directive. Captain Kirk took a liberal view of the PD, and he was recognized by later historians for the saving of at least two civilizations from destruction. Captain Picard took a more conservative view of the PD, and he was content to let a civilization die.

I think focusing on the PD as one of the reasons for Captain Kirk's demotion was a misreading of the complexities of the PD by the writers. I think sometimes these writers live in a world of extremes, it has to be one way or another.

(On a side note, I didn't find the civilization on Nibiru convincing. Ancient civilizations built their cities around temples. A lone temple, it didn't read "real" to me.)

 

[Belz...]

STID engineering was not filmed at the "brewery". It was filmed at NIF.

Actually it was filmed there _in addition_ to the brewery. Watch closely.

If you are a fan of Star Trek, then automatically you are a fanboy and a fangirl.

No. The term "fanboy" refers to someone who is seen as obsessed or at least unealthily concerned with their favourite franchise or passtime. Fan is just someone who enjoys said passtime and is interested in knowing about it.

Considering that the majority of people who have seen the film are Star Trek fans

You just made that up. Source for that statistics, please.