Star Trek II =The Dark Knight

[1bulma1]

Yes I know this is not a board to discuss Batman...however I keep hearing how Star Trek 2 is going to be The Dark Knight of science fiction movies in terms of sequels surpassing its original.

I know A lot of people think the dark knight is a masterpiece but does anyone think the Dark Knight is overrated.

 

[The Wormhole]

Personally, I actually thought Batman Begins was better than The Dark Knight, but The Dark Knight is still an epic and awesome movie.

But Trek XII won't be. Trek XII will be two hours of 3-D lens flares and horrible plot holes.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved Batman Begins, but thought TDR was overlong and mediocre.

I expect STXII to be more like Iron Man 2 - more of the same, and lots of fun!

 

[The Wormhole]

Iron Man 2 spent too much time setting things up for The Avengers.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Star Trek II will be setting everything up for the movie where ST meets Babylon 5, BSG and Doctor Who.

 

[F. King Daniel]

...and kicks all their asses

 

[Captaindemotion]

In all seriousness now, so many sequels seem to want to be The Empire Strikes Back or The Wrath of Khan. They want a bleak or cliffhanger ending and move away from the more upbeat tones of their predecessors.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love both ESB and TWOK and it's easy to see why so many sequels aspire to be them. But X-Men 2, The Matrix Reloaded, Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Men's Chest all went for that sort of feel. I'd actually like this Star Trek 2 not to imitate its mighty predecessor. I hope they retain the fun feel of the previous movie.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'd actually like this Star Trek 2 not to imitate its mighty predecessor. I hope they retain the fun feel of the previous movie.

Every Star Trek movie over the past 15 years or so has imitated TWOK in some way, even Trek XI. Hell, XI practically masturbates to TWOK. Expect Trek XII to continue this fine tradition.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

If this movie is like the last one, it'll be a really good movie and great fun. There's every reason to expect this to be true.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I'd actually like this Star Trek 2 not to imitate its mighty predecessor. I hope they retain the fun feel of the previous movie.

Every Star Trek movie over the past 15 years or so has imitated TWOK in some way, even Trek XI. Hell, XI practically masturbates to TWOK. Expect Trek XII to continue this fine tradition.

In some ways (revenge-seeking villain, uber-weapon, character emphasis). But as against that, it was upbeat and optimistic (Vulcan's destruction aside) and ended on a happy note (albeit that there was some hope at the end of TWOK). The themes of ageing, mistakes of youth returning to haunt one were absent from ST09 - mainly because it was about a group of young people.

If this movie is like the last one, it'll be a really good movie and great fun. There's every reason to expect this to be true.

From your mouth to the movie God's ear!

 

[The Wormhole]

I'd actually like this Star Trek 2 not to imitate its mighty predecessor. I hope they retain the fun feel of the previous movie.

Every Star Trek movie over the past 15 years or so has imitated TWOK in some way, even Trek XI. Hell, XI practically masturbates to TWOK. Expect Trek XII to continue this fine tradition.

In some ways (revenge-seeking villain, uber-weapon, character emphasis). But as against that, it was upbeat and optimistic (Vulcan's destruction aside) and ended on a happy note (albeit that there was some hope at the end of TWOK). The themes of ageing, mistakes of youth returning to haunt one were absent from ST09 - mainly because it was about a group of young people.

Yes, but, they weren't shy about "paying tribute" to TWOK. Things like:

-The Ceti Eel.
-The Kobyashi Maru having the exact same sound effects.
-"I have been and always shall be your friend."
-Not only was there a revenge seeking villain, he was seeking revenge over the loss of his home, and "beloved wife."

I could go on, but I've made my point.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I loved Batman Begins, but thought TDR was overlong and mediocre.

I expect STXII to be more like Iron Man 2 - more of the same, and lots of fun!

Batman Begins was better than TDK, but I would hardly call DK "mediocre". Overrated is a far better description.

 

[The Wormhole]

I loved Batman Begins, but thought TDR was overlong and mediocre.

I expect STXII to be more like Iron Man 2 - more of the same, and lots of fun!

Batman Begins was better than TDK, but I would hardly call DK "mediocre". Overrated is a far better description.

To an extent, yes I can see it being overrated. While it is an awesome movie, it is not the finest example of cinematic art that it seems everyone claims it to be.

 

[Gojira]

I am also one that thinks TDK is a bit overrated. Still a good movie but it was so dark thematically that it can be a bit of a downer. It was also too long.

I am hoping Trek XII to be just as enjoyable for me as Trek XI and if it is I will be very content.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Every Star Trek movie over the past 15 years or so has imitated TWOK in some way, even Trek XI. Hell, XI practically masturbates to TWOK. Expect Trek XII to continue this fine tradition.

In some ways (revenge-seeking villain, uber-weapon, character emphasis). But as against that, it was upbeat and optimistic (Vulcan's destruction aside) and ended on a happy note (albeit that there was some hope at the end of TWOK). The themes of ageing, mistakes of youth returning to haunt one were absent from ST09 - mainly because it was about a group of young people.

Yes, but, they weren't shy about "paying tribute" to TWOK. Things like:

-The Ceti Eel.
-The Kobyashi Maru having the exact same sound effects.
-"I have been and always shall be your friend."
-Not only was there a revenge seeking villain, he was seeking revenge over the loss of his home, and "beloved wife."

I could go on, but I've made my point.

Yes and there are only about 6 actual stories in reality, everything else is a variation on a theme.

I really hope the next Trek will be able to completely bowl me off my feet as much as The Dark Knight did but then I think we connect with Star Trek in a completely different way.
Batman is an angsty moral quandry about the pitfalls of being a superhero whereas we look to Trek as a more optimistic future where the sun is always shining (alright, flaring ) and humanity is in a better state than it is now.

Comparing the two doesn't really get you very far, they're both very good at what they do.

Still, if you're talking about the first movie in each particular reboot laying the foundations then the second one cranking it up to 11, then yes, I hope Star Trek 12 is exactly like the Dark Knight

 

[Set Harth]

Batman Begins is a reboot, but STXI is not.

 

[The Wormhole]

Trek XI is a reboot. There's a scene with all the characters spelling that out for the audience. And then, to really hammer things home, Nimoy shows up and says "it's a reboot, y'all."

 

[Hythlodeus]

if it's a reboot (and it's not, since the old universe still exists somewhere out there), it's a soft reboot. BB on the other hand was a reboot from scratch.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Every Star Trek movie over the past 15 years or so has imitated TWOK in some way, even Trek XI. Hell, XI practically masturbates to TWOK. Expect Trek XII to continue this fine tradition.

In some ways (revenge-seeking villain, uber-weapon, character emphasis). But as against that, it was upbeat and optimistic (Vulcan's destruction aside) and ended on a happy note (albeit that there was some hope at the end of TWOK). The themes of ageing, mistakes of youth returning to haunt one were absent from ST09 - mainly because it was about a group of young people.

Yes, but, they weren't shy about "paying tribute" to TWOK. Things like:

-The Ceti Eel.
-The Kobyashi Maru having the exact same sound effects.
-"I have been and always shall be your friend."
-Not only was there a revenge seeking villain, he was seeking revenge over the loss of his home, and "beloved wife."

I could go on, but I've made my point.

And you're missing mine. What I'm talking about is a movie that feels like TWOK; sombre, downbeat, requiring a sacrifice for the heroes to survive. Like X-Men 2 (Jean's death).

Trek '09 may have had continuity nods to things that first appeared or were referenced in Khan but it by no means did it feel like that movie. It was cheerful, bright and breezy.

 

[Set Harth]

Trek XI is a reboot. There's a scene with all the characters spelling that out for the audience.

Yeah, I remember that dialogue well. "We is in a reboot!"

if it's a reboot (and it's not, since the old universe still exists somewhere out there), it's a soft reboot.

No film is a reboot if it features a character who lived through the previous films in the series.