indont know 1 do territorial maps apply to sub-space : does the universe use principals of english land law 2 even if territory includes sub space does it include transwarp tubes 3 isnt transwarp drive more of space folding than traveling through 4. i think that the perception of space is always caclulated from the position of the observer 5 i just always kind of assumed that it was fifured a bit like starwars based on largest planet in the system and space lane as tonsome actual measure of physical border 6 do not forget the cosmos is always in motion things are only located relatve to each other for example we are located relative to the sun that sposition us only fixed by the attraction or repulsion of other gravital feature : i mean the actual space is always moving so based on nova blackhole etc the empty space could actually constrict : i know a lot of the romulan federation border is based largely on listening posts i bet often if it were real : people would be like oh shot we are in klingon space lets boom out of here : reminded of thw line from the clint eastwood movie joe kidd about shooting the dearon star trek location : i wasnt sure and the deer didnt know lol
Star Trek Galaxy Map
- Thread starter wulfio
- Start date
"The Universe?" No, but the Federation could be using a version of it and applying that law to territory they control (or simply claim). Another civilization could claim the same area of space, and apply their own territorial law to that space.
Subspace at it most basic would seem to be directly tied to normal space, point for point.
Just a few words about scale.
Our galaxy is believed to contain approximately 400 billion stars. That translates in about 100 billion stars per quadrant. Cut that in half due to binaries and trinary systems. Not exactly accurate but good enough for jazz.
So fifty billion star systems.
Assume Picard was correct and the Federation is eight thousand light years across, and just for simplicity's sake we'll say that is a sphere. Most systems are on the average light years distance from each other. 1600 systems across. Now let us be really sloppy and multiply that by itself as if we were talking about a cube. We get 2,560,000 systems. Wow.
But the quadrant is 50,000,000,000 systems in size.That is less than one twentieth of one percent of the Alpha Quadrant.
But what if we add the Klingons, Romulans, Tholians, Gorn, Breen, Ferengi, Shelliak, First Federation and Cardassians to the mix, assuming each is approximately the same size as the UFP? We still haven't reached one percent, not even one percent of the Alpha Quadrant.
Our galaxy is believed to contain approximately 400 billion stars. That translates in about 100 billion stars per quadrant. Cut that in half due to binaries and trinary systems. Not exactly accurate but good enough for jazz.
So fifty billion star systems.
Assume Picard was correct and the Federation is eight thousand light years across, and just for simplicity's sake we'll say that is a sphere. Most systems are on the average light years distance from each other. 1600 systems across. Now let us be really sloppy and multiply that by itself as if we were talking about a cube. We get 2,560,000 systems. Wow.
But the quadrant is 50,000,000,000 systems in size.That is less than one twentieth of one percent of the Alpha Quadrant.
But what if we add the Klingons, Romulans, Tholians, Gorn, Breen, Ferengi, Shelliak, First Federation and Cardassians to the mix, assuming each is approximately the same size as the UFP? We still haven't reached one percent, not even one percent of the Alpha Quadrant.
there have been episodes about that actually
maybe it was like when we first started exploring earth and were like ok thats everything then we were like oops china then like oops the americas lol
Love putting it into perspective and love the sloppy math.
I'm working on creating some accurate 3D Star Maps using SpaceEngine. It's a long and slow process but I hope to someday have something that people can enjoy and use.
When I look at that map in page 1 of this thread, I don't see anything equivalent to "international airspace" or "international waters".
If the Vulcans and Romulans want to engage in face to face diplomatic contact regarding unification, is there international galactic airspace that Romulan diplomatic ships can travel through in order to get to Vulcan to conduct diplomatic business? That map indicates that all the space between Vulcan and the Romulan empire is Federation blue.
According to that map, sovereignty doesn't appear to be based solely on actual landmass (planetary bodies and outposts) and the immediate space surrounding those bodies. A vast of majority of sovereign territory seem to be empty space. I don't know what concept of territorial law applies in the Trek universe.
Is there anything in Trek canon, where all the alpha quadrant powers got together to come up with the galactic equivalent of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea to determine how sovereign territory is to be decided?
well you wouldnhave to asssume that at the very least low orbit would have to be soverign : in all evolutions planetary goverments order the ships out of orbit so guess it would imply a recognized assumed distance of soverignty : i dont think however that borders actually only apply to sublight. travel : it woild be an intersting uber geeky discussion board federation interstate torque law lol
by the way sode not coyager 3-4-5 seasons pretty good really thought the captain photo epeisode with thephotonic beings was really like a tos plot
The series and movies make clear that the Federation territory does include open space and not just the area of star systems. Other powers seem to do the same
Easy answer would be no.
For such a trip (if it happen at all) the Romulan ship would have to be escorted through Federation space. Or more likely the Romulan ship would stop at the neutral zone and the diplomats would transfer to Vulcan ships.
I sometimes wonder if Nimbus III was supposed to be such a place.
Using the Celestia program, I've zoomed out as far out as having the entire galaxy taking up roughly half of the area of my screen. After doing so, I made the realization that all of the stars that we know about in reality; all of the stars discovered and placed in our constellations, and all that area that they all cover is just a minute section of the entirety of the galactic disk. If I was to place a graphic of our galaxy, stretched out over 4 17x17 tiles with the galactic center being the center of the 4 tiles, the entire interstellar area known to us would only take up about an area comparable to a US quarter (25 cents) placed right along one of the meridians...halfway down from the center to the outer edge. And this area also includes the fictional political bodies of the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empires. Eyeing the positions of the stars on Celestia vs. the same stars on the Star Trek star map, the Klingon Empire is nowhere near the edge of the Galactic disk; the Milky Way galaxy is simply much larger than what the map illustrated.
"The Triangle."
Which series and season again?
I guess that is why the Romulans had to steal some old Vulcan ships and then use them to fly their invasion force to Vulcan in the "Unification" ep. They couldn't openly fly their own ships there without causing a galactic incident with the rest of the Feds.
I liked the FASA map myself. The Klingons and the Romulans both seemed to have problems with other (then Unknown) species Coreward and Rimward. Perfect to be filled in by Borg and the Cardassians.
A related question I've always wondered about: it'd be interesting to see how long range sensors look on a map of a typical journey. So if a ship flies away from earth at Warp 5 for a day, then turns 135 degrees (forming the hypotenuse of a triangle), then heads back to earth, how 'thick' would the line of scanned areas be? Compared to the unexplored area in the middle of this triangle? I've a feeling the area would still be enormous, so if you wanted to do a thorough job of exploring you'd have to systematically go up and down like you were ploughing a field. It could very well be that there's huge areas in the middle of the Federation that no one's ever actually scanned.
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