Star Trek: First Contact RULES

[Tulaberry whine]

What could they do about it? They would have been worried, but had a job to do. They saw the ship was fine though the telescope, probably just thought there were temporary communication problems after the battle and the time travel.

Temporary? They were out of contact for what looks like days. And seeing the near-panic with which Picard returns to the Enterprise, I'd be more than a little worried if I was Riker.

If nothing else, I'd be wondering why a shuttlecraft hadn't been sent down if it was just a communication problem.

 

[Too Much Fun]

If nothing else, I'd be wondering why a shuttlecraft hadn't been sent down if it was just a communication problem.

They couldn't get to shuttlecrafts (presumably because the Borg took over that area?). This is why Picard said he, Worf, and Hawk had to do the zero-G thing.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

If nothing else, I'd be wondering why a shuttlecraft hadn't been sent down if it was just a communication problem.

They couldn't get to shuttlecrafts (presumably because the Borg took over that area?). This is why Picard said he, Worf, and Hawk had to do the zero-G thing.

Yeah, but Riker didn't know that.

 

[Captain Mike]

Resurrecting my old thread here because I'm watching the movie and I thought I'd rather post a thought on it here than start a new thread. Everyone familiar with my posts knows how much I love this movie and how I'm probably one of its biggest fans here (maybe THE biggest). I'm probably the only person here that considers it perfect, so I'm the last person one would expect to nitpick about it, but at the moment, I can't help myself. Now that I'm watching it for the umpteenth time, I think for the first time I've noticed a plot hole that kinda bugs me...

In the very first scene of the movie, an admiral calls Picard to tell him that Federation territory has been attacked by the Borg. A few minutes later, Picard holds a meeting in which he breaks the news that Starfleet has assigned the Enterprise to stay away from the Borg. When Riker visits him in his room shortly after the meeting, Picard explains that the Federation has decided he should stay away from the Borg because of his past experience with them.

This just leads me to wonder, if the Federation knew they were going to forbid Picard from getting involved with the Borg, why the hell would they bother telling him about the Borg attack? It seems just cruel. It would have made more sense if Picard had found out about it some other way. Then Starfleet would find out what he and his crew are doing and tell them not to intervene. In response, they could do the same thing they did anyway (take that "to hell with our orders" attitude and go for it). I still think the movie rules and I love the way Data and the rest of the crew rush off to save the day despite their orders, but the set up for that seems faulty now. Is this just a bad plot hole that got by the writers or can anyone think of a plausible explanation for why things happened that way?

I look at it in the way that Hayes was being straight forward and honest with him. I mean if things went south so bad as they lost Earth, you don't think that Picard wouldn't find out about it? That would seem to be more tortuous of not being informed at all. Or perhaps Hayes thought he could handle the situation on his own?

IMHO the biggest plot hole (apart from all the time travel shenanigans) was Riker and co not caring that they've lost contact with the Enterprise for half the movie.

I never saw that they didn't care. Riker tells Cochrane that they lost contact and haven't found out why YET. That shows me that they did seem to care, and were focusing on their mission at hand. Which was RIKERS responsibility given to him.

If nothing else, I'd be wondering why a shuttlecraft hadn't been sent down if it was just a communication problem.

They couldn't get to shuttlecrafts (presumably because the Borg took over that area?). This is why Picard said he, Worf, and Hawk had to do the zero-G thing.

Yeah, but Riker didn't know that.

Did you forget that they were trying to hide from the people of that time???? Oh yeah, The Enterprise will send a shuttle to tell us what is going on and why we lost contact and everybody can see it!

 

[Tulaberry whine]

Did you forget that they were trying to hide from the people of that time???? Oh yeah, The Enterprise will send a shuttle to tell us what is going on and why we lost contact and everybody can see it!

They weren't trying that hard to hide when they decided to ride shut gun on the first warp flight ever made by man.

 

[Saxman1]

My biggest issue with FC: I just didn't give a flying fuck about Cochrane or the Queen. And, frankly, I think adding the queen to the collective really took something away from the meance of the Borg.

THIS.

In addition, what was with the kinky sex sparring with Data and the Queen? That was stupid and slowed the film down.

 

[EyalM]

I've noticed a plot hole that kinda bugs me...
..This just leads me to wonder, if the Federation knew they were going to forbid Picard from getting involved with the Borg, why the hell would they bother telling him about the Borg attack? It seems just cruel. It would have made more sense if Picard had found out about it some other way.

There is no plot hole here. Picard is an officer, not a 12 year old that his commanding officers need to shield and worry about his feelings. If his superiors deceide to assign him to someplace else, then that's just the way it is. You don't decide who goes into battle based on your subordinates' ego.

Telling Picard about the expected attack was relevant to the mission (flimsy as it may be) that they did assign him too.
I would even guess that every ship captain and officer in charge of starfleet installation got the same heads-up (with Picard getting it face to face as a courtesy).

 

[Too Much Fun]

I've noticed a plot hole that kinda bugs me...
..This just leads me to wonder, if the Federation knew they were going to forbid Picard from getting involved with the Borg, why the hell would they bother telling him about the Borg attack? It seems just cruel. It would have made more sense if Picard had found out about it some other way.

There is no plot hole here. Picard is an officer, not a 12 year old that his commanding officers need to shield and worry about his feelings. If his superiors deceide to assign him to someplace else, then that's just the way it is. You don't decide who goes into battle based on your subordinates' ego.

Telling Picard about the expected attack was relevant to the mission (flimsy as it may be) that they did assign him too.
I would even guess that every ship captain and officer in charge of starfleet installation got the same heads-up (with Picard getting it face to face as a courtesy).

I don't really understand your argument. I wasn't suggesting that they shouldn't tell Picard because it would hurt his feelings to be left out. My question was, what's the point of telling him "The Borg have attacked, but you're not allowed to do anything about it. See ya."? It's like telling a cop to hand in his badge for misconduct and go on unpaid leave, then calling him the next day about some crime you know he'd have a personal interest in solving. In that case, you need to tell every single cop you can about what's going on, except for the one who is not allowed do anything. If you tell the guy who you don't want to get involved about something he'll desperately want to get involved with, you can't expect anything less than your order being disobeyed. So why sabotage your own plans like that?

My biggest issue with FC: I just didn't give a flying fuck about Cochrane or the Queen. And, frankly, I think adding the queen to the collective really took something away from the meance of the Borg.

THIS. In addition, what was with the kinky sex sparring with Data and the Queen? That was stupid and slowed the film down.

Take those negative vibes elsewhere. This thread is about what how awesome "Star Trek: First Contact" was, or (as of yesterday) whether I've found a plot hole in it and possible ways to explain why it happened. And even if that is a plot hole, I still love this movie. I laughed throughout the movie last night, especially during Cochrane's scenes. I loved him and every moment he was on screen. The conversations between Data and the Queen were delicious and never ceased to entertain me. They were by turns funny, fascinating, and even intense at times. I can't make a single post about this movie without someone coming in to crap on the movie no matter what my post is about. Yet I still try. Hot damn...I'm heroic.

 

[Captain Mike]

Did you forget that they were trying to hide from the people of that time???? Oh yeah, The Enterprise will send a shuttle to tell us what is going on and why we lost contact and everybody can see it!

They weren't trying that hard to hide when they decided to ride shut gun on the first warp flight ever made by man.

And just prey tell how is it that you came to the conclusion that they stopped hiding? The Pheonix's launch happened the way it was supposed to, whether Riker and crew were there or not. How did John Public factor in that they were from the future?!?!?!?

 

[Captain Rob]

I kind of look at it this way.
The police sargeant calls his cops patrolling the the city limits in a bad part of town. "We've got a situation downtown and we're calling in every available unit. I need you guys to stay in your patrol area to make sure that the gang bangers in the trailer park across the tracks don't try and take advantage of the situation. And try to steal everything in sight."

 

[Dac]

You answered your question in your question I think.

They told him because the Federation honestly thought putting a former drone who is in charge of the federation flagship head on with a Borg Cube would not be the wisest course of action simply because it has never happened before. And they didnt need that "unstable element in a critical situation."

As for Picard's compliance - The Federation had shored up its defenses from last time, the fleet was signifcantly larger and starfleet was for all intents and purposes in a better position to counter any Borg resistance. It was only when Picard heard the shitstorm over the comm channel that he decided that they really needed the Enterprise in the fight - just as an extra ship. I honestly don't think Picard expected any form of inner wisdom to destroy them until he was facing down the cube.

 

[TyberiusDeAngelo]

Personally, First Contact held up better before I watched Voyager and especially before Endgame. I could see the Borg sending one cube as they did in BOBW and FC because of the vast distance it had to travel to get to the Alpha Quadrant and Earth. This made the cube even more deadly, in my opinion, given it had to travel 70,000 light-years and did it in such a short time (Q-Who to BOBW was 1.5 to 2 years??). But with Endgame, the Borg have had the ability to open a transwarp exit conduit right at Earth's door steps all this time and they don't use it?

 

[PianoWizzy]

I add myself to the list of fans of this movie.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

I will agree that FC is probably the best of the TNG movies, although I can't say for certain as I haven't seen NEM yet (or ever).

That being said, it does have some WTF-type moments, like those mentioned upthread.

However, the biggest annoyance I have with it is that it just... ends. Everything's (supposedly) honky-dory once first contact with the Vulcans happens, we never see the ENT-E's crew get back to the 24th century, etc.

To me, that's just smacks of bad story-telling. It needed some more closure IMO. Nothing like, for instance, ROTK, but still...

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Tomalak]

However, the biggest annoyance I have with it is that it just... ends. Everything's (supposedly) honky-dory once first contact with the Vulcans happens, we never see the ENT-E's crew get back to the 24th century, etc.

So you'd rather have there be an extra couple of minutes showing the Enterprise going back to the future? Then what, does Picard sit down and have a cup of tea?

It doesn't add anything; we know they get back because there's a line from Geordi saying they can easily. It's a good ending already, showing First Contact.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Well, actually yes... Not Picard sitting down and having a cup of tea, mind you, but I just feel that the movie needs a few more bits of closure.

Having one line from Geordi doesn't mean bupkiss to me, honestly. We're just led to assume that time travel at this point is just another ho-hum, drive-around-the-corner-for-milk type of maneuver.

The movie, IMO, just feels like TPTB looked at their watch and said, "Oh Crap! It's too long -- we need to finish it NOW!"

(Of course, the whole idea logic of going back in time to assimilate a culture is pretty dubious at best, but we can probably do multiple threads on THAT. )

Like I said, IMO. It just irks me, that's all.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Skywalker]

First Contact is my favorite Trek movie, even though I acknowledge it's probably not the best one.

 

[Anticitizen]

This just leads me to wonder, if the Federation knew they were going to forbid Picard from getting involved with the Borg, why the hell would they bother telling him about the Borg attack? It seems just cruel.

They ordered the Enterprise to make sure the Romulans didn't try to pull any shenannigans, remember? So it's not like they just called up and said 'stay away'. They gave legitimate orders.

Anyway, historically, the Borg have never cared about assimilating people much - they were always after the technology. They even ignore people walking around until they start causing trouble. They just want that sexy Federation technology.

This, of course, makes the entire plot of the movie senseless. Going back in time to assimilate pre-Warp Earth defeats the entire motivation of the Borg that we were given since 'Q Who?'.

 

[The Rock]

After the dismaying amount of criticism of this movie I've read in other threads, I decided to make a new one in the hopes that some fans of this movie like myself might share some POSITIVE thoughts about it. To get us started: When I first watched all of the Star Trek movies, I thought this was the best one of all. Later I bought and rewatched the Wrath of Khan and had to admit that it's better, but not by a huge margin. I'll have to watch The Voyage Home again before I can decide if I like it more than First Contact, but I know for sure that these are my top three.

I know this isn't the most original movie. It obviously tries to emulate some of the best elements of those other two and Jonathan Frakes even admitted he watched movies like "Alien", "Aliens", "Jaws", "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", and "Blade Runner" to get ideas, but I honestly believe it succeeded tremendously despite whatever limitations there are to its originality.

I've tried to watch as many great science fiction movies as I can, and I've probably seen most of the seminal ones you can think of. For example, "2001: A Space Odyssey", "Planet of the Apes", "Alien", "Aliens", "Blade Runner", the "Star Wars" movies, "Metropolis", "The Thing", "The Day the Earth Stood Still", "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", and "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". I've seen all of those and seriously, I like it more than any of them. The only two science fiction movies I like more are "Twelve Monkeys" and "Terminator 2: Judgment Day". I think this movie has everything I could want in a science fiction or Star Trek movie: it's funny, it's exciting, it's suspenseful, it has good special effects, a good villain, creative production design, and is romantic (through a platonic friendship). Shame on the haters, this movie is a gem.

Agreed. I love First Contact SO much. I must have seen it like eight or nine times in the theater back in 1996, because I loved it that much. It is not only one of my favorite science-fiction movies ever, but it is also one of my favorite movies ever (along with The Godfather, E.T., T2, Alien, Aliens, Rocky, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, and finally the Bill And Ted movies, lol ). Now people can make fun of me all they want for my taste in movies, but I stand by my opinion. I too also love T2: Judgment Day! Arnold is the man.

Now comparing First Contact to Wrath of Khan, it's a funny thing with me. Why? Because Wrath of Khan is the better movie, but yet I like First Contact more. First Contact has the "re-watchable factor" in the sense that no matter how many times I watch it (and I've seen it like at LEAST 200 times by now), it never ever gets old for me. Whenever it comes on TV, I am excited to watch it. So is that weird that even though I think Wrath of Khan is the better movie, I like First Contact more? Is that a paradox of some kind?

Btw, you HAVE to see First Contact on Blu-Ray. They remastered the quality of the picture and sound and good lord it is stunning. They really outdid themselves with it. It even looks better than it ever did in the theater!

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I love First Contact, even if there's so many plot holes that the Trek Gods up at Paramount just throw their hands up in frustration and decide to de-canonize every TNG movie ever written. I'm much saddened that my VCR decided to stop working, preventing me from watching it.