Star Trek: Discovery - The Enterprise War

[JD]

If anything, a childhood sibling rivalry with a human sister could've been Spock's practice for his adult rivalry with McCoy.

This brings up something that's been bugging me lately, is the general opinion that McCoy is racist and doesn't like Spock? I'd always interpreted his attitude as more of just a friendly teasing, but I've seen several serious references to him being racist against Spock and Vulcans.

 

[The Wormhole]

This brings up something that's been bugging me lately, is the general opinion that McCoy is racist and doesn't like Spock? I'd always interpreted his attitude as more of just a friendly teasing, but I've seen several serious references to him being racist against Spock and Vulcans.

While I don't think McCoy ever actually hated Spock, calling him things like a green-blooded hobgoblin or making disparaging comments about his appearance (particularly his ears) definitely cross the line between friendly jabs and outright racism.

Granted in the 60s this was likely more a reflection on how casual racism was more or less considered acceptable in polite white company than any indication of McCoy's opinion of Spock, but there we are.

 

[Christopher]

Granted in the 60s this was likely more a reflection on how casual racism was more or less considered acceptable in polite white company than any indication of McCoy's opinion of Spock, but there we are.

Yes. McCoy wasn't meant to be racist, but standards of what's acceptable have changed over time.

For what it's worth, though, Spock's aspersions toward humans were as bad as McCoy's toward Vulcans.

 

[JJMiller]

Discuss the book please.

I'm willing to allow a wide latitude to discussions, but this is getting tiresome. Every thread about the DSC novels cannot turn into a discussion about the continuity issues on the show.

As the author of the book whose thread this is, I can assure everyone that I do work, whenever possible, to "make all versions correct" — reconciling continuity conflicts where they appear, or at least to smooth transitions. My job is to tell a good story, not to connect dots — but if I see a place where I can do so (in a way that meets with the approval of the licensors), I usually will make the attempt. Same for all our authors.

I think maybe the fact that my earliest TV memories were of soap operas may have inoculated me, to a degree, to continuity shock syndrome; if that didn't do it, being a comics fan did. Spock never mentioned any of his family members because they weren't invented yet, and over another fifty years I fully expect we'll see everyone's family trees grow even further. As fans and as writers, we simply deal with that as it comes. I fully expect that in 2049 when the immersive 3-D series shows what was secretly happening during the commercials of TOS episodes, people will be debating that over whatever media are available. (It's a surprisingly small step from Alexa to a TV that'll argue back when you yell at it!)

 

[Damian]

Sorry. I actually forgot what this thread was originally about. And as my wife will tell you I love a good argument and can get a bit carried away. Sometimes I have to take a step back and remind myself, it's just entertainment. Discovery not aligning with my opinion of continuity is hardly the end of the world.

I do look forward to this book though. As Christopher points out the novels do fill in a lot of the missing history, and they do a pretty good job these days of explaining away discontinuities in a way that makes sense.

As to this specific book it will be interesting to see how it'll tie together the Pike era Enterprise with Discovery.

reconciling continuity conflicts where they appear, or at least to smooth transitions. My job is to tell a good story, not to connect dots

One of the many things I do like about the novels. First, most importantly, they're good stories...so good in fact that I'd hate to see the relaunch litverse end if the nu-TNG show makes it impossible to continue (ok, that's a different thread so I'll stop there). But another thing I enjoy about them is explaining away some of those inconsistencies. The First Discovery novel had some of that when discussing the differences between the Enterprise and the Shenzou. Christopher pointed out some other books. Greg Cox took it a step further in explaining how the Eugenics Wars could have happened in a way that fit Star Trek future history and actual history (which was quite a feat) and of course did a good job linking Space Seed to TWOK. And there are so many other examples. Hell, sometimes authors fix things I didn't even realize were broken. I look back at the episode or movie after reading a novel and realize I missed a discontinuity.

So I look forward to the Enterprise War. I'm sure it will be a good one...it's been years since a book came out that I didn't like.

 

[Tuskin38]

First book of yours I read (well listened) was Kenobi, and I’ve been hooked on your writing since.

 

[JJMiller]

Thanks! Looking forward to everyone getting the latest one.

 

[GaryH]

Trying to get back on topic...

Will you be using lit canon Pike eras characters?

 

[JJMiller]

I don’t want to get into specific names as yet, but I used crewmembers from a lot of different works, including as established in DSC. Not all of them, of course — but one of things I did was work up a timeline of who would have replaced whom and when, for all accounts to be correct.

 

[ryan123450]

It sounds like you’re giving us some great easter eggs John! Thanks for all your work!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I was thinking more of Scotty's line in one of the episodes of the original series where he says it's dangerous to do intraship beaming because someone can end up inside a bulkhead. And that was from inside the transporter room.

Which strikes me as odd as the transporter routinely sends people from the ship to the surface or on to other ships without them winding up materialized in trees, rocks, buildings or the ground. Yet transporting them a few yards with in a ship they have the exact specs for is a problem?

 

[Christopher]

Which strikes me as odd as the transporter routinely sends people from the ship to the surface or on to other ships without them winding up materialized in trees, rocks, buildings or the ground. Yet transporting them a few yards with in a ship they have the exact specs for is a problem?

You ever try using binoculars as reading glasses?

 

[Kemaiku]

You ever try using binoculars as reading glasses?

We invented a second more specific thing called "glasses" as Starfleet invented multiple forms of things called "sensors" that we've seen operate at various resolutions for a wide range of necessities, that can can be accessed by all primary systems, including transporters, which would need to use the initial interior scanning systems of the ship to lock onto the people in the first place.

This time, the transporter does not hand off the energy pattern to a second, exterior set of targetting systems, but instead uses the same interior ones for the outgoing materialisation as well.

 

[Christopher]

It just seems to me that a system invented for long-range transportation wouldn't need to be designed to be adaptable for short-range transportation, since you can just get off your lazy behind and walk there. I mean, heck, on real-world naval vessels and aircraft carriers, they don't have elevators, partly because elevators in a battleship are a terrible idea (since the shaft could get bent in combat and create a bottleneck or trap people inside), and largely because military personnel are expected to be in good physical shape and able to walk, run or climb the distance effectively. Now, starships have turbolifts for the sake of the dramatic convenience of setting private conversations there, but it seems reasonable that they wouldn't see a need to equip their transporters for short-range function, since it wouldn't normally be needed.

 

[Damian]

It just seems to me that a system invented for long-range transportation wouldn't need to be designed to be adaptable for short-range transportation, since you can just get off your lazy behind and walk there. I mean, heck, on real-world naval vessels and aircraft carriers, they don't have elevators, partly because elevators in a battleship are a terrible idea (since the shaft could get bent in combat and create a bottleneck or trap people inside), and largely because military personnel are expected to be in good physical shape and able to walk, run or climb the distance effectively. Now, starships have turbolifts for the sake of the dramatic convenience of setting private conversations there, but it seems reasonable that they wouldn't see a need to equip their transporters for short-range function, since it wouldn't normally be needed.

That was my feeling as well. Even by the 24th century shows they didn't routinely beam to other areas of the ship unless there was some sort of emergency. Part of why it bothered me was the continuity error. But frankly a bigger part of it was why didn't they just walk to engineering, or wherever they were going to? There didn't seem to be any point when it was done that I could discern. The one scene I think of is when Lorca was showing Burnham engineering. I saw no reason he couldn't just escort her there on foot. It just didn't make a lot of sense to me.

I could maybe see turbolifts having some value within story since starships are pretty big and there are times crew may need to get somewhere quickly. Plus it's probably a space saver. They have ladders in the Jeffries tubes, but without turbolifts you'd probably need a stairway system instead of ladders, which would take up valuable space. With turbolifts you don't need stairwells, you have a quick mode of transportation in emergencies, and you still have ladders in the ship if you can't access the turbolifts.

Though I sometimes thought it a bit convenient that there was always a car waiting whenever someone approached the doors (well at least 98% of the time). I don't know about most people, but I'd love it if there was an elevator car waiting for me everytime I got to the door

 

[Christopher]

I could maybe see turbolifts having some value within story since starships are pretty big and there are times crew may need to get somewhere quickly.

Aircraft carriers are about the same size as Starfleet vessels, and their crew are able to get places quickly on foot, partly because they're in good shape, and partly because they tend to be stationed close to where they're needed. On TV, the same 7 or 8 senior officers handle everything, but on real ships, they delegate.

Back when I was imagining starship designs for my original SF (at a time when it was more imitative of Trek than it became), I had the idea that a ship could be built with ramps or corridors that spiraled from one deck to the next, to accommodate alien crew members that used rolling locomotion (specifically the species that I later used in Titan as the Pak'shree). I figured the crew could also use bicycles to get around the ship.

 

[JJMiller]

I suspect in-ship transporting is done, when it’s done, for the dramatic reveal and to speed action along, more than any in-universe reason. Or economics: the turbolifts require sets that may or may not be standing, depending on the production.

 

[Damian]

I had the idea that a ship could be built with ramps or corridors that spiraled from one deck to the next, to accommodate alien crew members that used rolling locomotion (specifically the species that I later used in Titan as the Pak'shree). I figured the crew could also use bicycles to get around the ship.

That would solve the problem of using up space for stairwells. You could just have basically one continuous deck or decks on an incline. You'd still probably want a ladder, or emergency access of some sort to quickly go from one place to the next, or just an alternative in case of ship damage. But under normal circumstances that would probably work.

 

[Damian]

I suspect in-ship transporting is done, when it’s done, for the dramatic reveal and to speed action along, more than any in-universe reason. Or economics: the turbolifts require sets that may or may not be standing, depending on the production.

I don't know. I mean, he could just say to Burnham "Come with me" and then they could just jump to the next scene in engineering. I actually think it was 'this would look cool' more than anything else.

Maybe mirror-Lorca really was just lazy and didn't feel like taking a walk. If they beamed inside a bulkhead, well , you can't win them all I guess

 

[GaryH]

I don’t want to get into specific names as yet, but I used crewmembers from a lot of different works, including as established in DSC. Not all of them, of course — but one of things I did was work up a timeline of who would have replaced whom and when, for all accounts to be correct.

Great!