Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by NewHeavensNewEarth, Mar 21, 2019.
Thanks! I’m genuinely really glad you like it! I’ll keep watching regardless.
True. I think I just don’t feel the Trek love from the creators at all. I find the series very very boring. If this forum is anything to go by I seem to be in a minority.
I disagree with that too. I've watched/read a ton of behind the scenes stuff and interviews with the creators, show-runners, writers, designers et al and I would say they seem to have a huge amount of love and respect for Trek. In fact, I would even say that there's more evidence of reverence and respect and geeky enthusiasm for Trek in the Discovery cast and crew than in previous incarnations.
Oh no who would have thought someone might have a different opinion than you.
I've been a fan for 25 years and for me the only spin off discovery is below is DS9. It's made me love trek again. Something enterprise and nemesis completely failed to do.
By that logic do you think that the viewers suffered in TOS because the cast was diverse in accordance with an NBC directive (not to mention at least the main two actresses being hired because they were having sex with Roddenberry)? Did Voyager suffer because they set out solely to cast a female captain? Did other series suffer because they had specific desires for people of particular racial backgrounds?
How odd to single out Discovery in that regard, particularly as the cast is excellent - quite a bit better than most Trek casts.
As for Stamets being gay, his character has certainly been more than that; not least the central figure in the spore drive and a good friend to Tilly. I would have thought the defining feature is that he is in a relationship, not that it is a homosexual one - just as Trek has featured a number of relationships in the past. Seems that you are the one focusing on the homosexual aspect; the fact that he is homosexual has only been mentioned once, briefly, in two seasons.
The Trek fandom certainly has its share of bigots - the ones who complained about the kiss in Rejoined, the ones who flooded Fuller with hate mail over the mere hint of a gay character in Voyager.
Frankly, when someone puts a mildly diverse cast (I see more diversity on my train every day, but Hollywood and even Trek do lag behind) down to "neo-liberal values filling diversity quotas", it's hard not to add that to the bigot category.
No it really isn't patronising at all. What WAS patronising, was how people like Rick Berman, Michael Piller and the like didn't think viewers could handle gay characters in star trek. In the case of Rick Berman, he didn't want there to be a gay star trek character at all. Star Trek was less progressive in the 90's than Melrose Place for crying out loud. So don't start with this bullshit that there was no need for further diversity in Star Trek. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I need to rewatch this season and stop at If Memory Serves, because up to that point I was loving it. The show had grown its beard and was going from strength to strength, with better dialogue, better pacing, engaging non convuluted stories. Great. Heck, I even had more time than most did for Point of Light.
The show badly screwed up its final act though, imho. Ridiculous, illogical, boring and full of holes. My scores dropped to 5 and 6 and that was generous.
I just wish this show could stick the landing and not go off the rails at the two thirds mark of each season. Then it would be perfect.
I feel like Season 2 did suffer from some of the same problems, albeit to a much lesser degree as season 1. It definitely felt like the writers changed their minds about the story arc mid-stride and it went from being about faith and science to more about evil A.I wants to be evil for reasons.
The Red Angel being Burnhams mother and then Burnham herself kinda felt tacked on and very last minute. It's the same with Section 31 which I felt was like the mirror universe plot of season 1. I think they tried to do too many things this season, got overwhelmed mid-season and then changed tack to wrap everything up quickly. I think Berg and Harberts getting the boot was probably another reason, My guess is they didn't have the season entirely planned out when they got the boot and the rest of the writers and to take up the slack.
Regardless, I am very excited by the possibilities of Season 3, I'm glad the 23rd century is being left behind, to possibly be explored in a Pike series. The 32nd century means they can now do whatever they want without the cross of canon strapped to their backs. My hope for season 3 is that it allows Discovery to stop and smell the roses and explore it's new surrounds to the fullest.
I'm certainly interested to see what they do with the new setting. I've never really been one for eras in Trek because, aesthetics aside, they tend to be remarkably similar. Ships with warp drive fly around exploring space while Starfleet officers with phasers, tricorders and communicators beam down for missions. There's not a lot of societal or technological evolution across the Trek timeline, just surface detail.
I hope the Discovery writers can do something genuinely new with this brand new future setting for Star Trek.
I remember reading somewhere that one of Roddenberry's greatest regrets was that it took him a while to come around on LGBT rights himself, and when he finally did, he didn't do enough to push for LGBT representation. Berman and Braga really should have done better, if only for that reason alone.
edit: never drink and post, kids
I just realized I never came here to gush before... I understand the show isn't without its problems and I wonder too what could be different without the BTS drama, but in general? The first two seasons are already better than a huge part of Voyager and most of Enterprise for me, and while this might sound extra heretical to many, I find Discovery much more enjoyable and entertaining on an average than TNG that has always felt kinda bland and slow for me, basically something to pass the time on weekend mornings with. It's not up there with DS9, I'm not sure it ever will be there, but there's still something to it that only DS9 managed for me in modern Trek: Discovery is the first Trek since DS9 with main characters I can actually relate to and identify with, and unlike Julian Bashir, who I came to identify with only in retrospect with keeping Dr. Bashir, I presume? in mind on rewatches, I was able to see much of myself in both Michael Burnham and Sylvia Tilly right from the start. Not only are many elements of the childhoods and family environments of both deeply familiar to me, but many of Burnham's emotional reactions and issues resonate with me on a deeply personal level and always remind me I'm not alone, while Tilly's honest emotionality and resolve to be herself in the face of others' negative reactions to it inspires adult me in a way Jean-Luc Picard, who I've looked up to as a role model in my teens, never could. I don't know if I was ever able to have Star Trek resonate on such a personal level for me before.
I loved Discovery on the whole, sure there were some confusing aspects, some bad writing, and some over schmaltzy cringe inducing love ins near seasons end, but 80% of it was great.
When you are actually counting the days before the next show airs, you know it's doing something right.
I've gushed about it, I've been underwhelmed by some episodes, and I've been critical, but mostly "gushed"
Any criticism, I've tried to be measured, rational and subjective.
Discovery is cool, and Season 3 can't come quick enough.
Fuck, I wonder what happened to them ?
Roddenberry dodged the opportunity when it was presented on TNG.
Where LGBT issues are concerned, Roddenberry was decades of talk to assuage fans' feelings, and complete nonperformance.
Awesome 2nd season finale. Great story line. They had a few great fight scenes this year, just wish there were more like last season 1. The credits say that the Fight Coordinator was HUBERT BOORDER. One of the major things that drew me back to Discovery were the fight scenes that feel more like a movie than just a T.V. show. My friends, Non-Trekkie's became Trekkie's. I loved the fight scenes detailed to each (character race fighting style) really snared me and the first season was amazing. Great job HUBERT BOORDER. I hope the writing in all future seasons allow for such great fight scenes. Live long and prosper.
Those are actually the same person. I believe you meant Berman and Braga.
Neo-liberalism preaches laissez-faire economic liberalism and extreme free market capitalism. They would in fact oppose diversity quotas as unwanted regulation, not support them. But that's besides the point that we don't need this kind of ignorant and bigoted rhetoric about diversity quotas on the forum.
When the heterosexual characters express an interest in a member of the opposite sex, are they being "reduced to their sexuality" or just expressing attraction like most people do? Why is it patronizing if a gay character does it?
The rest of the comments aren't troublesome in and of themselves, but taken with the diversity quota and gay remarks, it is telling that the only character who doesn't overact, speak incomprehensibly, or make you want to throw up is a straight white male.
Infraction for trolling for the diversity quota and gay remarks. That's not welcome here. Comments to PM.
She speaks with a pretty standard Malaysian accent, I don’t find it hard to understand at all.
Separate names with a comma.