Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Nov 17, 2021.
What if Grey gets so used to his Harvey-esque existence that he doesn’t not want a corporeal body?
Yes, but they tried to do that last season and they went about it half-heartedly. They told us (via Burnham and everyone else speechifying) how she had learned something, when they showed us that Burnham was basically right. I hope this time they will be more congruent. It doesn't even have to be super dramatic. But ofc DSC likes the broad strokes, so...
Even if Burnham learns something she will still be treated as always right. SMH.
The set up couldn't possibly be more obvious, IMO.
The President calls Burnham out as an inexperienced Captain who hasn't made the tough choices and hasn't faced that people under her command might die. Which basically tells me both those things will happen. It's in big, green neon lights.
Plus we're in what I assume is now the middle of the series. This is the right time to have a shift in her character. They're channeling the Kelvin Films this season, down to having Book's planet destroyed. And Burnham is essentially being written like she's NuKirk, not Kirk Kirk but NuKirk. The Kelvin influence is there right from the first scene.
So the President is like Pike at the beginning of ID telling Burnham she's not ready. So they'll show how she becomes ready, which means she has to have a character development arc.
You can quote me on this in three months. This is my Official Prediction. And if I'm wrong... I don't know. I'll subject myself to something.
- Felt like S1 of Discovery, where they namedrop Archer and have other Star Trek references (“what we left behind”) for the sake of it. There’s no actually meaning behind these references at all. If the current Federation President said she models herself after Archer’s time as the Federation President as he’s her favourite, that would be meaningful and would develop both the current Federation President to explain her behaviour and Archer himself. Especially if the Discovery crew – being only 60 years removed from Archer’s time as Federation president – have a different perspective on him compared to the current FedPres who is 1000 years removed from him.
- No one seems to have learned what’s happened in the past 900 years. I find it hard to believe that Burnham at the very least would not be interested in learning what became of Spock, Sarek, Amanda Grayson & Pike. And that Tilly and the other female bridge officers did not learn about the adventures of Captain Janeway after wanting to hear stories about Voyager. Its not like Spock was best friends with someone that beat the Kobayashi Maru, and that would have been a useful retort for Burnham, even if the Federation President countered that the number of those who beat the Kobayashi Maru could be counted on one hand and Burnham isn’t one of them. Or Janeway’s CMO used a mobile emitter, one option that would be at least worth considering for Gray. Not to mention Picard’s gollum. Or if the Federation’s mixed history with synths makes it difficult to find a solution for Gray.
I get there’d be a lot to catch up on, but surely someone in what remains of the Federation drew up cliffnotes of important events, people, and inventions of the past 900 years to hand to the Discovery crew.
- Destruction of Kwejian – was this really necessary? I feel like planets in sci-fi are destroyed now for the sake of destroying one, and its losing all meaning. It was alright in ST’09 and even in the Star Wars sequel trilogy, but now its feeling tired and it shouldn’t feel that way. Discovery dumped a political rivalry between the Federation and the Emerald Chain for this? And yet if this planet was say, Qonos, Cardassia or Bajor, its destruction would hold more meaning.
- Turning Adira into the new Tilly is just a sign that whatever maturation and growth the crew experiences might be limited to a few characters.
- I like that they are trying to do something with the rest of the supporting bridge crew for a change. And that they promoted Tilly. And that brought back Starfleet Academy.
- I also like that we finally got a name for Kima’s species – Akoszonam.
- I also liked that they showed Burnham rebuilding the Federation. Still think it would have made for a more interesting season long plot. These threats of the season plots are reminiscent of ENT S3, and while I do considerate a favourite, I feel like they are missing as to why threat of the season worked for ENT and its not working for DIS.
Rate this episode 6/10.
I thought it moved along pretty well. (0:53)
She did learn what happened to Spock. Ahem. This happened.
Or worse the new Wesley
Oh, I agree. The butterflies did nothing wrong. But the heroes' attitudes in that scene were way off. It was like a buddy movie. Burnham especially should have known better. Out of anyone in the cast. Her character is the one who straddled the line between human and Vulcan, and would have a better idea as to how to behave around strangers. Come to think of it, Book is also just as qualified as her. Those two just blundered right in, smirking, and talked down to the butterflies. Then their grand plan was to make it easier for the butterflies to shoot at them? Before they run away from the butterflies? They were right next to safety, but chose to stand behind a mushroom tree, help the butterflies increase their accuracy, then run several meters of open terrain under fire.
That scene made no sense and was really off=putting. Rest of the episode was a lot better. I thought that they might use that scene to justify the president's criticisms of Michael. That was a missed opportunity on their part.
I can see that. But "running cargo" post-Burn is probably just as dangerous as anything that Michael and crew had to do. The only difference is that the President would be in a slower ship, at the mercy of pirates. Michael's just not interested in any critiques, I feel. I'm not a fan of maverick captains, and that includes Kirk. But maybe she'll actually grow as a person this season. I was almost expecting the President to mention that if she didn't consider Burnham capable of handling Voyager then she wouldn't consider her capable of handling Discovery going forward.
I mean, I figure you'll be right. And since I consider nuKirk's arc in the Kelvin films one of the best and most relevant of arcs put on screen in Trek I sincerely hope you are correct in that descriptor.
However, Burnham will not be regarded any better regardless of what she learns this season. Because when she learns something she will get a pat on the back from the President and the statements of "Well, not the President loves her just like everyone else!" SMH.
Right? Was the whole point of the episode that Burnham just hasn't learned the lessons that she needs to? Or is it that she's above those lessons?
We see the Klingons basically coming in for a fight, treating Georgiou's "We come in peace" as a lie. Burnham getting blamed was a scapegoat of the highest proportions, and set her down a path of basically not trusting anyone.
Or in TOS, or any other action/adventure franchise. Yeah, it's not just Kelvin here.
ETA: Hell, just watch Marvel films. They are sarcastic, snarky and quippy all throughout death defying situations. I recently watched "Winter Soldier" and Captain America and Black Window are commenting throughout the action scenes. Calling it "Kelvin" seems rather short sighted at this point. However, I would agree to call it Marvel because Marvel does it all the time.
I hate these weekly waits.
I think the "whole point" is that either could be true...from a certain point of view.
I didn't read the scenes between Burnham and the President as disdain and dismissal.
Rather Burnham have a legitimate professional concern with the President coming along for the ride. Her presence does heighten the danger for her crew. It could be a distraction.
In the ending scene with between them, I saw it as Burnham standing up for herself, not that she sees herself above criticism. Would any of us do anything less than make a case for ourselves in that situation?
I agree that Burnham needs a foil. This season it's the President. But she really needs her own Bones and Spock to challenge her. Well, she had Spock until the time jump. Maybe her Spock could be Saru when he rejoins. And Stamets her Bones.
Sadly, Burnham is not treated like any of us.
Eh, even the President didn't mention the Klingon war issue, maybe we can lay it to rest.
I think most people - whether they like her more or less - are willing to judge Michael according to her actions.
Speaking of "some" people, can someone tell me why this Burnett person quoted upthread is noteworthy? (I vaguely remember what he did last year, I mean: Was he officially involved with Trek at some point or is he just a well-known "fan"?)
He was involved in Trek at some point and then was involved in Axanar (see the fan film forum for that) and then made statements last season of Discovery about being done with the show after the reveal of the Guardian of Forever.
Kirk had Spock and McCoy. Picard Beverly and Riker. Sisko the Daxes. Janeway had Chakotay and Seven. Archer had Trip and T'Pol.
Season 4 Burnham definitely needs someone to act as a foil and to be a sounding board for her issues.
Separate names with a comma.