Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 30, 2020.

?

Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    19.1%
  2. 9

    21.4%
  3. 8

    30.1%
  4. 7

    16.8%
  5. 6

    2.3%
  6. 5

    4.0%
  7. 4

    1.7%
  8. 3

    0.6%
  9. 2

    0.6%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    3.5%
  1. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    The Federation President is the EMH Doctor. :)
     
  2. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Badgey!
     
  3. Scionz

    Scionz Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    One thing I think would be nice to see made clear soon is exactly how long humans (and Federation citizens) live in the 32nd century. This is important to the story I feel.

    We know from TNG that in the 24th century that humans lived for at least 137 years (Dr. McCoy's age). Picard in ST: Picard in 2399 is 94 and while he's clearly slowed down from his time as Captain of the Enterprise-E 20 years prior (when he was 74), besides his brain abnormality he was in good health and had many years left. So let's say that by the late 24th century human beings living to 150 was like living to 85 today, and human beings typically passed away in their mid 130s. We also know from that time that Vulcans lived for 150-200 years as well. Sarek died at 203, Spock at 161.

    So how much had that advanced by the 32nd century. Are human beings with access advanced medical technology living 250 years? Longer? Shorter?

    This matters because the Burn happened 3069, shortly after the end of the Temporal Cold War. By 3189, which is 120 years later, the Federation and its people had not really recovered from even the psychic trauma of the event. It is talked about like something that happened within the last decade, not an event that happned to people's grandparents or great grandparents.

    We know that in the past 120 years, Federation technology seems to have barely advanced. They are using the same ships. Maybe this is due to simple scarcity. But it would be useful if Vance said something like "I was a Lt. Commander when the Burn happened, and...". Because the time scales involved in the statements being made - 120 years ago with the Burn, 50 years for the Emerald Chain to uproot itself from pre-warp civilizations, "We haven't talked to Deep Space 325 in 87 years" (or whatever), and I guess this "Rain Forest ship was lost for 100 years" thing I missed... means entirely different things when the average life span is 300 years and because of the vastness of explored space in the 32nd century and life span of people, things happen on much longer time scales.

    For my part I hope that's the case. I think it'd be an interesting story telling direction. And I gather that this is what is implied to be happening given that Aditya Sahil's father and grandfather were federation officers (a minimum of 120 years prior). But the show should just state it plainly that this is the case.
     
    lawman likes this.
  4. IMC Headquarters

    IMC Headquarters Fleet Captain Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Location:
    Sanctuary. Far Beyond the Domes.
    Lock and load Little Ones!
     
    Markonian and saddestmoon like this.
  5. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2002
    Location:
    EXILE + ATTON = GUUUUUUSH!!!! (pic by aimo)
    I've just been watching for the most part because after what I think was a stellar first couple of episodes, I've kind of been disappointed with where the show has gone (I didn't like the random Mirror Universe diversion in the middle of the show). I'm still not sure what I think about this episode in particular, but mostly because they teased their Burn revelation only to save it for the finale.

    Based on the preview:
    I also wish a season of the show could end without big explosions and ships shooting at each other, but I think that's just where we are now. lol
     
    ThreeEdgedSword and fatewemake like this.
  6. ToddCam

    ToddCam Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA, USA
    I really loved the scenes with Osyraa and Vance. I can't say I agree with Vance here. Ultimately, justice is illusory and war criminals get away with things all the time. All the lives ruined or lost in the continuing struggle, with potentially the complete collapse of the Federation... letting one monster off the hook is a small price to pay to restore some semblance of stability and peace.
     
    caper_guy, antinoos and DarKush like this.
  7. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    You know the UFP is based on Idealistic principles, if it isn't perfect, it won't be acceptable.

    That's probably why the UFP only had 350 members at it's peak.
     
    DarKush and Lorcan Kelly like this.
  8. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    It was nice to see phasers with a continuous streams instead of just pew pew pew.
     
  9. KennyBoo

    KennyBoo I have spoken............ Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Location:
    KennyB
    THANK YOU.......I had never noticed her having anything but a generic Canadian/North American accent before today.......and I thought I was imagining her sounding slightly Imperial today.
     
  10. Scionz

    Scionz Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    To be fair, while the end of Season 2 had that big ship fire fight, the highlight of it was Burnham activating the Red Angel suit and falling through a wormhole into the space-between-space as she traveled through time. It was an incredible sci-fi moment for Star Trek.
    Really lost the space battle in the face of Burnham falling through time and space in a stunning, stunning manner.

     
    burningoil and TPezz like this.
  11. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Location:
    in the 10 dimensions of reality
    TBH, I did not like the bots at the end. It reminded of a kids show. But the Negotiation between Osyraa and Admiral Vance was good. Osyraa's offer looked good but Admiral Vance was too principled to get past her war crimes. The little back story behind Osyraa and the Emerald Chain scientist explains why some people might be loyal to her.

    It is also good to see an actual physically challenged person play a physically challenged character who is also a scientist.
     
    lawman, Captain Fine, Llywela and 6 others like this.
  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Uh, why not? We’ve seen humans do it before, hell we’ve seen Data use it before. So clearly there isn’t a biological requirement.
     
    TIM Thomason and KennyBoo like this.
  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    Biblical moment: Vance tempts Osyra with shit-apples.
     
    JoeP, saddestmoon, burningoil and 6 others like this.
  14. Roald

    Roald Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 1999
    Location:
    Zwijndrecht, the Netherlands
    One thing I do hope gets resolved in the final episode is an explanation for the 'mysterious music'... It was a really cool plot point but we haven't heard anything about it in a while...
     
  15. Lorcan Kelly

    Lorcan Kelly Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2019
    God that would be brilliant. Or Voyager J shows up to save the day with Picardo as captain.

    Always thought it was a bit odd that it was Voyager J as opposed to the Enterprise. Stood out to me that perhaps there was a reason for that and would feature in the finale.
     
    NCC-73515 likes this.
  16. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2002
    Location:
    EXILE + ATTON = GUUUUUUSH!!!! (pic by aimo)
    Honestly, I think the second season finale would have been better absent the space battle and having the climax be the sacrifice.

    I get that people want to see starship battle porn in 2020 because of things like the Trek movies and new Star Wars, I suppose, but it's usually just not... interesting. In some ways, I'm glad DS9 was limited in what they could do because it has the perfect amount of spectacle.
     
  17. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's amazing how important things are to different people. Speaking personally it's never so much as entered my head to wonder how long humans like Admiral Vance live for, any more than it really entered my head to wonder how long Janeway or Chakotay would live for.
     
  18. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Just saw the episode. One of the best of DISCO's run thus far, and a highpoint for the season. It was exciting, suspenseful, and had some surprises. I wasn't expecting Osyraa to actually propose an alliance with the Federation, one, that seemed legitimate. This was the episode that makes her stand out as a villain, because it added complexity to the character. It was good seeing Kenneth Mitchell again and how his character had a different, more kind view of Osyraa, at first anyway. And I liked the dueling philosophies between the Emerald Chain and the Federation. This is the kind of Trek I've missed. Vance's legit moral concerns about the Chain ran against Osyraa's realpolitik.

    The episode did a nice job intercutting the discussion between Vance and Osyraa with action on Discovery. And I was happy to see that the supporting cast got in on the action as well. I really loved the ending with Stamets and Burnham, that was very gut punching for him to say that and for her to hear it, and still put the Federation first over the friends she loved. Stamets was wanting put family/loved ones over the Federation just like Burnham had done many times before, so Michael had to be hit with a decision she herself might have made in past or different circumstances. I also thought it was a good decision to not go back to Culber, Saru, and Adira, because that would've made the episode too unwieldly.

    One of my few regrets is that we don't learn the species of the helmeted aliens in the Chain or that of the Regulator Burnham blew out the airlock. I was wondering if she might have been Klingon, but when I got a closer look at her, I think it's an alien we haven't seen before.
     
  19. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Do people REALLY want to see this sort of thing happen? I find this sort of suggestion sooooo cringey!
     
  20. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well, it'll be good to have Picardo show up in character at some point, given "Living Witness"...