Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"

[fireproof78]

The reason why I have loved Star Trek so much is that the science of everything had a plausible explanation that was believable

Is it? Is that why we have episodes were the basis of reality is thought? Where a soul can be transferred from person to person? How phasers work? How the transporter works? Star Trek stretches science a lot for the sake of dramatic convenience a lot more.

I know that many like to hold on to Star Trek as a bastion of scientific projection but it really isn't.

Now, can people not like the Burn's cause? Yes, absolutely and many have voiced their concerns over it in multiple threads. But, there is a lot of unbelievable science in Trek.

 

[Tim Thomason]

How the transporter works?

It works fine.

 

[fireproof78]

It works fine.

The good and evil dogs tearing around the Enterprise begs to differ...

...also TMP *shudders*

 

[Fateor]

Except, it doesn't appear to be so at least in Star Trek parlance. You have it happen from time to time but then you have that guy Rasmussen who had a time pod and went to the future with little to no ramifications that we know of. Which, ultimately, is how time travel is treated. It can be very casual or have huge ramifications. So, the implication is that time travel can be monitored in such a way that limits that impact. Which, would make sense given what we saw with the Timeship Relativity, which indicates the ability to monitor time streams. So, you basically have the option of limiting access to the tech, as the major powers have done through the ban and knowing that past authorities are able to monitor and correct.

If time travel was so freaking dangerous then Kirk wouldn't have used it so casually.

That's just flat out wrong.

We never get any follow up with Rasmussen, so don't know what happened there, in fact, for all you know they might have wiped his memory and used the Guardian to return him to his place in history.

And no, you don't have the option of limiting access to the tech, because that requires temporal technology to do.

 

[fireproof78]

That's just flat out wrong.

We never get any follow up with Rasmussen, so don't know what happened there, in fact, for all you know they might have wiped his memory and used the Guardian to return him to his place in history.

And no, you don't have the option of limiting access to the tech, because that requires temporal technology to do.

It does? All I need is a list of ways to travel through time and keeping those materials away from people.

It's not flat out wrong-we have no information to base anything upon, besides that nothing ever came of it. For all you know his traipsing through time had no significant impact whatsoever.

 

[Photoman15]

All I have to say about this episode is that I'm really disappointed with their explanation of the Burn.

Spoiler

I mean scared Kelpian screaming destabilizes dilithium everywhere is really far fetched.

The explanation is sound. The holodeck being in the dilithium nursery is affected by the emotions of Su'kal. The "wave" that was emitted went out all thru subspace, destabilizing all dilithium (in it's range) as the wave passed. (Any active warp cores go boom). Wave passes, the affected dilithium may or may not be usable/returned to normal, but probably permanently "burnt out". viola

 

[Fateor]

It does? All I need is a list of ways to travel through time and keeping those materials away from people.

Impossible.

Most types of Time Travel don't require any sort of rare or hard to find material. In fact, you can build time travel technology with just the technology and materials available on 1940s Earth.

It's not flat out wrong-we have no information to base anything upon, besides that nothing ever came of it. For all you know his traipsing through time had no significant impact whatsoever.

Actually we do, we know what kinds of time travel created closed temporal loops and what kind of time travel actually posses the ability to change the timeline.

And none of the one's used in discovery actually create closed temporal loops.

 

[fireproof78]

Impossible.

Most types of Time Travel don't require any sort of rare or hard to find material. In fact, you can build time travel technology with just the technology and materials available on 1940s Earth.

Consistently?

Actually we do, we know what kinds of time travel created closed temporal loops and what kind of time travel actually posses the ability to change the timeline.

And none of the one's used in discovery actually create closed temporal loops.

And with that goal post shift I think I'm done here.

 

[Fateor]

Consistently?

Yes... It's a literal plot point across multiple shows...

Hell, the easiest form of Time Travel in the setting requires nothing more then a star and a ship capable of traveling at warp speed.

And with that goal post shift I think I'm done here.

That wasn't goal post shifting... Traipsing through time without impact is a closed temporal loop...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Officially, Georgiou "died". That's Discovery's story they told Starfleet.

There's a difference between "enforcement" and "zero tolerance". One requires you to think and actually use your judgment. The other doesn't.

From Burnham's point of view, she is dead. Unless she's 900+ years old and living on a planet somewhere.

 

[Lord Garth]

From Burnham's point of view, she is dead. Unless she's 900+ years old and living on a planet somewhere.

Smacking my forehead. I think you know what I meant. Burnham and Saru didn't say anything about time-travel. Just that she died. Period.

And, yes, of course she's dead by 3189.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Smacking my forehead. I think you know what I meant. Burnham and Saru didn't say anything about time-travel. Just that she died. Period.

And, yes, of course she's dead by 3189.

Just joking around.

 

[erotavlas]

Is it? Is that why we have episodes were the basis of reality is thought? Where a soul can be transferred from person to person? How phasers work? How the transporter works? Star Trek stretches science a lot for the sake of dramatic convenience a lot more.

I know that many like to hold on to Star Trek as a bastion of scientific projection but it really isn't.

Now, can people not like the Burn's cause? Yes, absolutely and many have voiced their concerns over it in multiple threads. But, there is a lot of unbelievable science in Trek.

Souls - actually energy based life forms
Transporter - perfectly valid form of technology - scientists have proved quantum teleportation works
Phasers - we have lasers already, they are just an extension of that
Warp drive - warping space/time to propel you forward - basis in facts about space time from Einstein's theories
Time travel - theoretically possible
wormholes - again possible
nanites - possible
etc etc

Of course there are going to be some things that needs to be created for the story that don't have basis in reality, either because its just not possible (fantasy) or because we haven't invented it yet.

But what I'm saying is for the most part, a lot of it is scientifically plausible, and or can be explained as plausible within the confines of the rules of the star trek universe.

In this case I suppose they haven't had a chance yet to explain what makes this plausible in their universe.

Another two points of issue are:
- that if dilithium is exhibiting this weakness and can be destabilized to such an extent, why has no one ever in the history of warp faring civilization ever discovered this weakness?? And weaponized it?? I imagine they could just create whatever wave this is and direct it at a ship and make it explode on demand.

- since this scream from Su Kal didn't result in Discovery exploding, and that looked already like a pretty powerful wave he emitted, then what the heck happened the first time in order to make ships explode across the entire quadrant (if not further)

 

[fireproof78]

- that if dilithium is exhibiting this weakness and can be destabilized to such an extent, why has no one ever in the history of warp faring civilization ever discovered this weakness?? And weaponized it?? I imagine they could just create whatever wave this is and direct it at a ship and make it explode on demand.

Probably because the collateral damage could be quite extensive. It is a great idea though, but I can see that going poorly. Especially since it seemed to cross subspace rather quickly. So I wonder what way such an effect could be weaponized without impacting either subspace or causing damage to allies?

Of course there are going to be some things that needs to be created for the story that don't have basis in reality, either because its just not possible (fantasy) or because we haven't invented it yet.

At times, sure. But someone are just fantastical and don't work within science. I think the thought as the basis of reality one is the one that pains me the most, as well as Spock's resurrection. I have no problem with fantastical in Star Trek though. It is par for the course to my mind as far as Trek goes.

 

[erotavlas]

Probably because the collateral damage could be quite extensive. It is a great idea though, but I can see that going poorly. Especially since it seemed to cross subspace rather quickly. So I wonder what way such an effect could be weaponized without impacting either subspace or causing damage to allies?


At times, sure. But someone are just fantastical and don't work within science. I think the thought as the basis of reality one is the one that pains me the most, as well as Spock's resurrection. I have no problem with fantastical in Star Trek though. It is par for the course to my mind as far as Trek goes.

I rather liked the idea of thought being the basis of reality. It's very philosophical. I'm guessing you're referring to episodes like Where No One Has Gone Before? That was one of my favorite episodes and I loved the whole Traveler story line with Wesley. For some reason I totally accepted it as being within the realm of possibility even in our universe. Probably because I think to myself often there has to be something more to everything we are experiencing at this moment.

 

[fireproof78]

I rather liked the idea of thought being the basis of reality. It's very philosophical. I'm guessing you're referring to episodes like Where No One Has Gone Before? That was one of my favorite episodes and I loved the whole Traveler story line with Wesley. For some reason I totally accepted it as being within the realm of possibility even in our universe. Probably because I think to myself often there has to be something more to everything we are experiencing at this moment.

Well, sure I think there is more to this reality as well, but I don't find the concept of thinking causing existence to be one that is super scientific. Very philosophical but not scientific.

Mileage, etc.

 

[Search4]

Except, it doesn't appear to be so at least in Star Trek parlance. You have it happen from time to time but then you have that guy Rasmussen who had a time pod and went to the future with little to no ramifications that we know of. Which, ultimately, is how time travel is treated. It can be very casual or have huge ramifications. So, the implication is that time travel can be monitored in such a way that limits that impact. Which, would make sense given what we saw with the Timeship Relativity, which indicates the ability to monitor time streams. So, you basically have the option of limiting access to the tech, as the major powers have done through the ban and knowing that past authorities are able to monitor and correct.

If time travel was so freaking dangerous then Kirk wouldn't have used it so casually.

Really hard to stop a ship from warping fast and breaking away from a star.

 

[fireproof78]

Really hard to stop a ship from warping fast and breaking away from a star.

Not when the dilithium is so limited.

 

[Fateor]

Really hard to stop a ship from warping fast and breaking away from a star.

Without the banned temporal technology? Impossible.

Which is why the whole thing only works with an enforcement agency who didn't give up their temporal technology enforcing the laws against others using temporal technology.

 

[DEWLine]

Yeah, that crew shortage has to be remedied. Maybe next season?