Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 23, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    11.9%
  2. 9

    17.5%
  3. 8

    18.0%
  4. 7

    22.7%
  5. 6

    7.2%
  6. 5

    7.7%
  7. 4

    4.1%
  8. 3

    3.6%
  9. 2

    3.1%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    4.1%
  1. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

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    I agree with this, and the franchise has erred too far in that direction in the past. But I think they’re veering too far toward straight-up incompetence and dysfunction this season. I can understand Stamets being protective of Culber, but the others seem to have no business in leadership positions on a starship, much less one as important to the Federation as Discovery now is.

    And I have to admit — I’m getting the impression they’re going to character assassinate Saru to make Burnham look good. Hope not. His character growth has been one of the best parts of the show, and I’m feeling like this season has been a big step back. I’ll be disappointed if they shove him aside.
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I do wonder if it is a deliberate choice to show them as being out of touch. As much as I have sympathy for the Discovery crew, for how traumatized they are, and needing healing, they also need to fall in with Starfleet rules and regs.

    I'm less worried about Saru and more worried about Vance dying, because I think his approach would be far more able to manage a damaged Discovery crew than others. I also think that Saru is currently compromised because of the Kelpien involvement in the burn. I don't think they are character assassinating him as much as exposing his blind spots. I think that's some of the best aspects of Kirk is when they explore those blind spots in his leadership. Saru has the potential to explore the same.

    Mileage will vary on how this is perceived from a character level.
     
  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can't imagine Vance giving Burnham command of Discovery at this juncture. That's not Vance's character. I think either Saru will stay Captain or Vance will put someone from outside of Discovery in command.

    Discovery Season 3 is the first time we've ever seen a Captain who's completely new to being Captain.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Vulcan captain who has been in stasis.
     
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  5. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

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    I hope you’re right. And I definitely want them to explore Saru’s struggles with leadership. That’s a key part of his arc, after all. But Burnham’s speech was a red flag for me, and I didn’t really buy his paralysis during the away mission. It seemed like another example of the writers moving the chess pieces where they needed them to be, rather than because the behavior flowed organically from the character.

    If Saru loses the captaincy — especially this quickly — I will be bummed and consider it a missed opportunity of Lorca levels. And it would be a weird call for a Trek show to make, suggesting an uncomfortable sort of biological inferiority.

    Hopefully I’m fretting about nothing.
     
  6. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

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    And our first alien captain, too, played by an amazing actor. There’s a lot to explore there, and I hope they don’t toss it away.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  7. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, Saru being Discovery's Captain is one of the greatest opportunities for dramatic evolution and impact the series has been given and it would be supremely disappointing if the creators made Michael the Captain simply because they just defer to Burnham when it comes to the lead role in the story.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    On the one hand, I see your point and I would surprised and a bit disappointed at him no longer being captain.

    That all said, there is a lot to explore with Saru as a character and unless that character is leaving (unlikely) him no longer being captain doesn't automatically mean they have tossed it away. I think a lot of fans, myself included, have an Eddington complex in that we all want to be captains, or, if not us, our favorite characters. And, if they are not captain then that someone means they are lesser. And, Discovery has struggled a bit with this with the idea of the main character not being the captain and apparently that is regarded at times as a negative.

    Except, Star Trek is about different people with different strengths and differences coming together in meaningful ways. And being a captain won't automatically come to everyone, nor should it be. It's like Monster University animated film and how it explored the idea that despite scarers being the top in the Monster world not everyone could be in that role.

    Now, with that said, yes I want Saru to be captain. But, I don't see it as this huge missed opportunity, and in fact see it as more of an opportunity to have characters continue to be front and center without being captain. It's unique and I like to explore unique things.
     
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  9. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    Anyone seen the preview?
    Michael using a phaser and taking names
     
  10. Ketrick

    Ketrick Commander Red Shirt

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    In my opinion, Burnham should be made captain, but not of Discovery. Discovery should by all rights be under the command of Saru and another ship can be under Burnham. Eventually, perhaps Tilly should be given a ship, but that shouldn't be until like the sixth or seventh season. She has a lot of growing to do. Nhan is about the only other person with command potential, but she's on the Tikhov and who knows if she'll return. None of the others to this point have shown any real command potential.
     
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  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    And said counselor usually can only state the obvious; IE - After a ship attacks the 1701-D; or an alien threatens Picard on the screen and Picard mutes the audio for a conference, she says something like: "I sense great anger/hostility..." (Yeah? No kidding lady...):lol:

    Her other great line was (as an alien is screaming): "I sent great pain..."

    During TNG she was one of the most incompetently written characters on the show. In fact the only time I ever saw her written competently as an actual counselor was in her "Picard" series appearance in episode 7. That was the first time I saw Deanna Troi act like a competent psychological counselor. So yeah that only took what? 30 years for them to finally get the character right? (Again :lol:).
     
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  12. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. It took a Pulitzer winning writer to finally get that character right.
     
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  13. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I care about Ryn and we have only seen him twice. In fact, I cared about him in his first episode and was thrilled we saw him again.
     
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  14. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You cared about him as soon as you saw the blue makeup:p
     
  15. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    My reaction was tempered by one thing: I'd always wanted to see a tragic story, either a two-parter or cliffhanger that was caused by the crew or federation that led to some change in the world or galaxy. Some real consequences that was their actual fault. So initially, I was disappointed by the reveal but looking at it in the light a felt better about it.
    Maybe also some points for not going with the obvious.

    The strength of the episode was the surreal holoscape and revelation of the lone child, all those dramatic elements worked in the core of the story.

    Other aspects of the episode were less enthralling. Kudos for the show for trying the first female antagonist lead in some time, but I don't think The Chain is working as a great adversary... Yet.

    I'm still not a fan of Tilly as first officer, and certainly not one as captain. With shields down why weren't the crew ready for boarding?

    Overall the stronger elements made for an entertaining story, but without a better resolution in the next 2 episodes, this is a case where the episode will feel weaker.

    7.0/10
     
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  16. IMC Headquarters

    IMC Headquarters Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Osyraa is defeated because she can't stop rubbing the burr on the Captain's chair and thinks of nothing else.

    Maybe.
     
  17. ananta

    ananta Captain Captain

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    I finally figured who Osyra reminds me of, and that is Felicity Huffman. Something about her voice and line delivery. Desperate Space Orions, anyone? I’d kind of be here for that.

    The preview looks promising. Pacing has been an issue since around the time they made it to Starfleet command, so I’m interested to see how things will tie together. The season’s success or failure creatively is pretty much hinging on these final two episodes. I’m excited but a little nervous.
     
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  18. ananta

    ananta Captain Captain

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    Maybe it’s the Starfleet equivalent of bubble wrap?

    I loved the little detail of the burr on the Captain’s chair. Inspired writing choice. It is was such a personal, humanising touch.
     
  19. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    Let's do alternate theories..... If Osyraa was just the figurehead and not the one in actual charge of the Chain who could it be?
     
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  20. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Discovery was number 5 on worldwide Netflix

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
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