Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x06 - "Scavengers"

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I noticed how Adira is still being referred to as she by everybody (ok, Stamets and Culber in this one, because no one else had direct contact with her that we saw).
Does anyone know if Adira gets another episode clarifying her gender identification?
Or did we all just jump the gun when they got cast and we projected from actor to role? (Do we have a non binary term for acting professional?)

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Interesting that Burnham’s impetuous “to hell with the rules” tendency rubs some people up horribly, when in fact it makes her one of the most Kirkian characters since James T himself

Simple difference is Kirk was captain. He was usually disobeying far away admirals from out in the depths of space where as Burnham has repeatedly been a dick to and pulled a gun on her captains who she claims to love.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I noticed how Adira is still being referred to as she by everybody (ok, Steamers and Culber in this one, because no one else had direct contact with her that we saw).
Does anyone know if Adira gets another episode clarifying her gender identification?
Or did we all just jump the gun when they got cast and we projected from actor to role? (Do we have a non binary term for acting professional?)

Personally I try to just refer to the character as Adira and avoid any gender words but like many characters we don't get a definite answer on a gender in show so have to assume.

Bit of a freudian predictive text mistake from your phone too as "Steamers" is a derogatory term for gay in Ireland.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

this episode put an end to theories that Georgiou is Kovich in disguise or a hologram. She is having some flashbacks to MU, so it is really her. But Kovich is probably responsible for whatever is happening to her.

I feel like she has some sort of attempted "clockwork orange"

 

[Danny99]

Personally I try to just refer to the character as Adira and avoid any gender words but like many characters we don't get a definite answer on a gender in show so have to assume.

I think Stamets used a "she" in reference to her at some point, but sticking to Adira works for me.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Personally I try to just refer to the character as Adira and avoid any gender words but like many characters we don't get a definite answer on a gender in show so have to assume.

Bit of a freudian predictive text mistake from your phone too as "Steamers" is a derogatory term for gay in Ireland.

Ouch. Thanks. Corrected the mistake.

 

[fireproof78]

Interesting that Burnham’s impetuous “to hell with the rules” tendency rubs some people up horribly, when in fact it makes her one of the most Kirkian characters since James T himself.

Indeed, yes. Kirk did more for even more personal reasons and still gets a pass!

 

[cooleddie74]

Kirk said "to Hell with the rules" right up to his dying day! I'm pretty sure a long-missing and presumably dead Starfleet Captain from the 23rd century time traveling to help save a planet from destruction is going to make somebody in Temporal Investigations upset.

 

[eschaton]

I noticed how Adira is still being referred to as she by everybody (ok, Stamets and Culber in this one, because no one else had direct contact with her that we saw).
Does anyone know if Adira gets another episode clarifying her gender identification?
Or did we all just jump the gun when they got cast and we projected from actor to role? (Do we have a non binary term for acting professional?)

Blu the actor only came out as nonbinary during filming. I'm guessing Adira also only figures out their status later on.

 

[eschaton]

Indeed, yes. Kirk did more for even more personal reasons and still gets a pass!

Kirk was actually pretty by the book in TOS. I think he only disobeyed orders in Amok Time.

Kirk the rebel is a movie invention.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

I'll accept this as an actual problem as soon as Trekyards can explain in-universe why half the crew of the Enterprise-D was wearing the old spine-bending spandex uniforms for years, and what was going on with Generations.

Regarding the TNG uniforms, it's pretty obvious that there were different variants being used at the same time. This is how a lot of real-world militaries work. Calling that a "plot hole" is willfully ignorant. Of course, the real-world explanation is that you can't get a Starfleet uniform off the rack at a department store, they have to be manufactured by the wardrobe department and that's a considerable production expense. Even though Disco has a bigger budget than the Berman-era productions it still isn't unlimited. They spent quite a bit of money making all those uniforms and they can't afford to just throw them out. Maybe the crew will get new threads for Season 4, who knows?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk was actually pretty by the book in TOS. I think he only disobeyed orders in Amok Time.

Kirk the rebel is a movie invention.

And The Galileo Seven
And the Trouble With Tribbles
Probably more if I had the time to think about it.

 

[Odo]

Kirk's violated orders about 8 or 9 times by my count. That doesn't include his other non screen actions - Temporal Investigations said he was a menace and had 17 temporal violations.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/how-many-times-did-kirk-disobey-orders.289790/

I personally like Michael's characterization - I'm not saying she's right, but it works for me. I also think her perspective being different from Saru's results in natural interpersonal conflict that stems from character, rather than forced interpersonal conflict that stems from plot.

 

[SJGardner]

What I don't understand (among many things) about this whole slew of criticism about Burnham is the notion that there was no character development in her at all and she's the exact same as she was in The Vulcan Hello. Hasn't she become much more in touch with her emotions and much more at peace with who she is? Why should character development necessarily mean learning to play by the rules, becoming a team player and unquestioningly obeying authority? Character development doesn't equal becoming a model officer, and this line of thinking isn't unique to Burnham, as Tilly is often criticized as well for not showing any signs of developing into a cool-headed, by-the-book walking Starfleet recruitment poster. Is it really impossible for people in the military to develop in ways that make the constraints of uniformed service a hindrance to them realizing their full potential?

We wouldn't have seen her having serious difficulties readjusting to the rigidity of rules and the chain of command after a year of freedom if it wasn't significant for her personal story arc. She only accepted becoming Saru's XO at his insistence because she doesn't see herself as XO material anymore. She has taken on a personal quest that is bordering on obsession and is already negatively affecting her ability to fulfill her duties as a Starfleet officer. Call me naive, but this doesn't seem like some "Burnham disobeys orders because they're dumb and gets anointed as the second coming by the Admiralty because of it" plot. She is obviously conflicted about her place and role, and is probably going to experience even more friction between her Starfleet duties and her crusading, responsibility-hoarder personality. Nowhere is it written in stone that she will be proven right about everything and Starfleet will just fall in place behind her and make the Burn their mission because she made a teary speech.

 

[Reyman]

Been there, done that during the second half of S1. Time to move on....

Prime universe is getting a little crowded.

 

[Paul755]

And The Galileo Seven
And the Trouble With Tribbles
Probably more if I had the time to think about it.

I don’t think he disobeyed orders in either episode. He may have stretched things to the breaking point and/or treated some civilian bureaucrat like shit but he didn’t violate anything. Even in “A Taste of Armageddon” he violates the orders because he’s ordered to by the Ambassador.

But TOS Kirk rarely did break the rules as much as people think he did. At least not nearly to the level he did in Search for Spock, which he was punished for although not nearly as harshly considering he saved Earth.

In fact I think that’s become kind of a stereotype of the character so much so they baked it into the Kelvin-verse version.

 

[Fateor]

So here's a question...

Why did the Admiral delegate Discovery to the second least effective job possible?

Because for all it might be able to be a rapid reaction force, it would be much better used re-establishing, re-supplying, and repairing various stations and outposts that have broken down due to being too far away to get the necessary supplies and personal needed to keep them running.

 

[sevenstars]

Interesting that in the very last shot of the episode she takes off her combadge. (Heck, can we even call them combadges now? More like com/transporter/Tricorder badges. I bet you can even play Snake on them too)

I worry about anything that comes off that easily having that many essential functions.
Also makes it a little difficult if you want to leave your com badge on your bed and sneak off the ship.

Simple difference is Kirk was captain. He was usually disobeying far away admirals from out in the depths of space where as Burnham has repeatedly been a dick to and pulled a gun on her captains who she claims to love.

Agree. Not only were the admirals far away (and frankly, Kirk seemed to weigh his options a little more, at least in the series) but a captain is far more of an independent actor.

 

[JD]

I

I think that would just be actor. Even though it's technically the male term, I've seen it used in gender neutral ways to.

Blu the actor only came out as nonbinary during filming. I'm guessing Adira also only figures out their status later on.

Yeah, I read an interview with them after their first episode, and they said since they weren't out as non-binary when the started on Discovery they weren't comfortable having the character referred to as non-binary. I'm wondering if Adira's relationship with Gray, and accepting the Trill is going to lead to them to realize they are non-binary.

 

[fireproof78]

I don’t think he disobeyed orders in either episode. He may have stretched things to the breaking point and/or treated some civilian bureaucrat like shit but he didn’t violate anything. Even in “A Taste of Armageddon” he violates the orders because he’s ordered to by the Ambassador.

But TOS Kirk rarely did break the rules as much as people think he did. At least not nearly to the level he did in Search for Spock, which he was punished for although not nearly as harshly considering he saved Earth.

In fact I think that’s become kind of a stereotype of the character so much so they baked it into the Kelvin-verse version.

He violated orders from Komack in Amok Time. His diversion was allowed only because T'Pau intervened. Kirk acknowledges his consequences:
MCCOY: You can't go off to Vulcan against Starfleet orders. You'll be busted
KIRK: I can't let Spock die, can I, Bones? And he will if we go to Altair. I owe him my life a dozen times over. Isn't that worth a career? He's my friend. Bridge. Navigation.

Perhaps Kirk's rebellion was overblown, but it became part of Trek's fabric. Janeway speaks of them as being more cavalier, less likely to quote rules and more likely to pull phasers. Kirk is an officer who governs his command and decisions on principles, not by politics and rules. Burnham is of a similar mindset. Her principles may not be 100% accurate to the situation, and colored by a traumatic past, but her willingness to go with her gut is very similar to Kirk.

And, as you note, Kirk broke multiple rules in Search for Spock, and his punishment amounted to a slap on the wrist, at best. Given what Kirk did this is amazing.