Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x03 - "People of Earth"

[cooleddie74]

Samuel T. Cogley voiced a similar attitude about using computers in his legal work. He clearly has access to a modern computer database but chooses to use old-style books to glean the knowledge he requires to defend his clients. He doesn't actively rail against technology but he isn't that fond of it, either.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek continued that attitude with Picard's brother. It's a constant tension of technologies benefits and dangers. I get that people want to see more and more technology but it isn't a straight line.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Luddism isn't nearly as ubiquitous as it used to be. People like Robert and Cogley were way more relatable to most of the audience.

But nowadays even grandparents have smartphones and play Among Us. So those types of characters would seem way more out of place.

 

[fireproof78]

Luddism isn't nearly as ubiquitous as it used to be. People like Robert and Cogley were way more relatable to most of the audience.

But nowadays even grandparents have smartphones and play Among Us. So those types of characters would seem way more out of place.

They must all live near me then because that's pretty much par for the course. My dad doesn't have a smart phone, has no use for it. My wife refuses to use a smart phone. I meet as many people with flip phones as smart phones.

Still very relatable to me.

 

[Sarcastic Vulcan Salute]

Small problem with that.
In real life, we didn't have massive data redundancy or advanced methods of information storage thousands of years ago (in short, we were not technologically advanced enough to ensure preservation of large amounts of data).
With how diligent SF and the Federation are with record-keeping and having numerous sites (on just 1 planet) where information can be stored, losing information through the centuries on any era since the invention of FTL would be mostly inconceivable/highly improbable).

Granted, the data they do have would be dependent on the logs kept by people, officers and whatnot... but that alone gives them incredible accuracy for extrapolating what happened with very little margin of error (as we saw the 24th century for example being able to do).
Obviously with WWIII happening on Earth, some data might have been lost, but not a huge enough amount to prevent people from extrapolating what happened based on the data that did survive - and also, planetary conflicts would arguably result in more damage to information storage rather than say insterstellar wars that failed to exterminate an organisation).

Data redundancy would also improve over time.
We already developed years ago storage that would keep information for a million years reliably.
And holographic storage was already developed in the 90-ies by IBM... so its not like imagining storage technology which would keep records safe for incredibly long periods of time was impossible even for the writers in the 80-ies/90-ies and using that on Trek (nevermind for modern day writers... but hey, that would require of them to KNOW something of modern science and technology... which in fairness they might, but their ability to EXTRAPOLATE seems rather poor at best - as is their ability to think within the technologically advanced setting as Trek).

Even assuming that technology would improve, people would not necessarily do so at the same pace.

There would still potentially be mistakes. There would still be deliberate decisions based on people wanting to preserve privacy, people wanting to restrict public access to data for ideological reasons, people wanting to make profits (not just in the form of money but any kind of advantage), people overvaluing or devaluing certain types of data, so on and so forth. Even a thing like formatting might mean some data gets left behind.

We in real life certainly had the capacity to record all sorts of history. Individually and collectively, we opted not to for reasons ranging from the cost to do so to the politics of it to not viewing things as important.

You don't need to know the exact methodology behind the Great Pyramid of Giza to construct your own with modern technology and science in a fraction of the time or resources it took our ancestors.

The point is that certain things can be a lost art. Could modern engineers make Great Pyramids like that one? Sure. But they might not be able to make it if they suddenly found all fossil-fuel based engines no longer had a steady supply to work.

Besides, record keeping from that era was not exactly best... and people are trying to extrapolate events based on a very small frame of reference from a culture they had little understanding of.
In Trek, you have a universal translators, computers and algorithms capable of taking small information and extrapolating a huge chunk of it with incredible precision, historical databases from hundreds/thousands of alien species which may have experienced similar progression as humanity in history... not to mention a sort of 'standardization' (a common language) which makes things even easier in regards to mutual interaction, cooperation, etc. (and incredible data redundancy on individual planets, starbases, ships, etc. - too many to count - not all of which would be lost to the Burn).

Mind you, even today we are using computer algorithms to gain a better idea of what happened thousands of years ago based on fossils, bone remains... what kind of diet the people had, etc... it gives us a better insight into their culture and how their lives unfolded.

Moving forward, it will be increasingly easy to store existing data and knowledge with massive redundancy for the future - because we have far superior methods of doing so than the past did and this ability will only improve as time goes on.

Again, even if it is theoretially easy to store data, that doesn't guarantee it will be done properly or universally or at all.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Luddism isn't nearly as ubiquitous as it used to be. People like Robert and Cogley were way more relatable to most of the audience.

I’ve been in computers since I was 11. I’m now 50. Still in computers. It’s starting to look highly appealing these days.

 

[cooleddie74]

Luddism isn't nearly as ubiquitous as it used to be. People like Robert and Cogley were way more relatable to most of the audience.

But nowadays even grandparents have smartphones and play Among Us. So those types of characters would seem way more out of place.

I suppose one could conjecture that in the generations after World War III and the dawn of humanity as an interstellar species there was a "return to Nature" of sorts that saw some people become neo-Luddite and Epicureans when it came to the simple pleasures that mankind and its history have to offer. Physical books. Remote farms or vineyards equipped with minimal 23rd and 24th century technology. A skeptical approach to said technology that - while not blossoming into full opposition - held that the old traditions of their ancestors were not only better but more practical.

 

[Bay17]

I understand your concern about Nilsson, but the bridge crew are and have been identified many times before. "Brother" even made a point of identifying them one by one so I don't quite understand your complaint here?

Fair enough. I just wish they’d give them more dialogue each, even in small doses

 

[ScottJ85]

Old thread by now I know, but I loved how the central conflict of this episode is a dispute that’s on the verge of breaking out into full scale war, because it never occurred to either side to just sit down and talk it out. That’s extremely on brand for Star Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

I suppose one could conjecture that in the generations after World War III and the dawn of humanity as an interstellar species there was a "return to Nature" of sorts that saw some people become neo-Luddite and Epicureans when it came to the simple pleasures that mankind and its history have to offer. Physical books. Remote farms or vineyards equipped with minimal 23rd and 24th century technology. A skeptical approach to said technology that - while not blossoming into full opposition - held that the old traditions of their ancestors were not only better but more practical.

One doesn't need to conjecture. We saw such attitudes from time to time in TOS and TNG. I love Spock's comment most of all in "Way to Eden" regarding the rebellion against the sterilized atmospheres and controlled environments.

 

[lightspeedbear]

Watched this last night. The Earth Defence Force woman really cannot act. Cringe-worthy casting choice. The central conflict was paper thin, which didn't help.

The show's obsession about beating us over the head with how lovey dovey the crew are is also really starting to grate. SHOW us why they're a family in love with each other, don't tell us. Burnham joining Saru on the bridge to watch Earth "with you " Almost as bad as Saru talking about how he was sure Burnham's speech in the s2 finale "would have been beautiful".

Speaking of Saru, what happened to this once likeable character? Someone remove the stick up his ass please.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek is famous for stick up it's ass-itis.

 

[Quinton]

Old thread by now I know, but I loved how the central conflict of this episode is a dispute that’s on the verge of breaking out into full scale war, because it never occurred to either side to just sit down and talk it out. That’s extremely on brand for Star Trek.

Reminds me of Stargate as well, if only because Christopher Heyerdahl is in this episode.

Saru talking about how he was sure Burnham's speech in the s2 finale "would have been beautiful".

I love that line. It's delivered swiftly; it's accentuating the fact that the crew recognizes Michael's tendency to pontificate but time is of the essence. Focusing on the "beautiful" bit misses the mark, IMO.

 

[fireproof78]

I love that line. It's delivered swiftly; it's accentuating the fact that the crew recognizes Michael's tendency to pontificate but time is of the essence. Focusing on the "beautiful" bit misses the mark, IMO.

I love that moment too. Saru does a great job and him and Michael's growing relationship is one of my favorite aspects of Discovery.

 

[lightspeedbear]

I love that line. It's delivered swiftly; it's accentuating the fact that the crew recognizes Michael's tendency to pontificate but time is of the essence. Focusing on the "beautiful" bit misses the mark, IMO.

I understand Saru's desire to be quick given the circumstances. It's the line itself that makes me roll my eyes. It's all just so FORCED. like most things on Disco. OTT lovey-dovey, forced unearned emotion this show rams down our throats.

The TNG, DS9 or Voyager crews were a family by the end of their series finales, 7 years in, but they didn't feel the need to constantly tell us how they love each other every five seconds like on Discovery.

 

[fireproof78]

As if all families behave the same...

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I finally got back to my DSC Season 3 DVD set.

The "Wen Reveal" took me completely off-guard. As did the discovery that Admiral Tal was a Trill, and Adira was hir host.

I will note that the ending had me half-expecting Boothby to somehow pop out of the woodwork. Even though Ray Walston has been dead for two decades.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Boothby's like Kosh he is likely to pop up anywhere

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Boothby's like Kosh he is likely to pop up anywhere

We are all Boothby.

 

[Kzinti]

I finally got back to my DSC Season 3 DVD set.

off topic but they still sell DVD? lol