I'm not convinced that Voq was physically altered as such. Mind swap, or mind blend. The real Tyler was mentally swapped with VOQ, and Voq either learned about Tyler via interrogation, or inherited some of his memories. The perfect sleeper agent.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x08 - "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I'm not convinced that Voq was physically altered as such. Mind swap, or mind blend. The real Tyler was mentally swapped with VOQ, and Voq either learned about Tyler via interrogation, or inherited some of his memories. The perfect sleeper agent.
That could work, especially in returning Tyler back to his own form once this story has done its turn.
Um yeah.. what a waste
C
Captain pl1ngpl0ng
Guest
Agree with the others here...
After a lifetime of vulcan influence i thought burnham would be more like T'pol. More distance from feelings like that. She turned into a Bambi way to fast.
And if there was to be some kind of romance, it should be subtle with a long buildup.
After a lifetime of vulcan influence i thought burnham would be more like T'pol. More distance from feelings like that. She turned into a Bambi way to fast.
And if there was to be some kind of romance, it should be subtle with a long buildup.
"CVS Paracetamol For My Bellyache, Yum"
(I'm not making fun of your review here. And yes, I know CVS would actually call it acetaminophen.)
Please, make fun. I'll take whatever attention I can get! :-)
Don't you threaten me.
Well, from what Kor says (though I'm sure he deceives with the best) about the Klingon mind-scanner/sifter/ripper in "Errand Of Mercy" (TOS), that shouldn't be possible, for either Voq or Tyler. He says the "emptying" of the (original) mind from the body is permanent. And that would seem to fit with Voq being required to give up everything—i.e., he's stuck like that now, his consciousness either having replaced the real Tyler's in his emptied "vegetable" shell, or having been merged ("sifted") together with it inextricably. I would prefer to see it play out more like "Tuvix" (VGR), but without the reset. What's left of Voq and what's left of Tyler must learn to coexist as a wholly new individual, even if they must fight each other internally first.
KLINGON: He is what he claims to be, Commander, a Vulcanian merchant named Spock. His main concern seems to be how he will carry out his business under our occupation.
KOR: Nothing else?
KLINGON: The usual, a certain amount of apprehension regarding us. The mind is remarkably disciplined.
KOR: You are sure?
KLINGON: I used Force Four, which is sufficient to break down any pretense.
KOR: Very well, Lieutenant. Would you like to try our little truth finder?
KIRK: I don't understand.
KOR: It's a mind-sifter, or mind-ripper, depending on how much force is used. We can record every thought, every bit of knowledge in a man's mind. Of course, when that much force is used, the mind is emptied. Permanently, I'm afraid. What's left is more vegetable than human.
KIRK: And you're proud of it.
KOR: It is a tool, a weapon. Somewhat drastic, but very efficient.
KIRK: Are you sure you're all right?
SPOCK: Perfectly, Baroner. But it was an interesting experience.
[...]
KIRK: That mind-sifter can't be all the terror they think it is.
SPOCK: It should not be underestimated, Captain. It reaches directly into the mind. We Vulcans have certain mental...certain disciplines which enable me to maintain a shield. Without those disciplines, there would be no protection.
[...]
KOR: You'll have a drink with me, Captain?
KIRK: No, thank you.
KOR: I assure you, it isn't drugged. With our mind scanner, we have no need for such crude methods.
KIRK: What do you want from me?
KOR: Oh, a very great deal. But first, I want to talk. Just talk.
KIRK: Do you think I'm going to sit here and "just talk" with the enemy?
KOR: You'll talk, either here, now, voluntarily, or [...] I can get what I want through our mind-scanner, but there would be very little of your mind left, Captain. I have no desire to see you become a vegetable. This friend of yours, the Vulcan. He seems to have the ability to block our scanner. I think perhaps I will find out why. I will have him dissected. Your friend killed, you a mental vegetable...
I think it makes perfect sense. After a lifetime of being emotionally guarded and closeted, due to a combination of her childhood trauma, compounded by her Vulcan upbringing, and then further by bonding with no one aboard the Shenzhou but Georgiou, and then losing her too (and through her own actions, as she perceives it) Burnham now feels an inexplicable attraction to "Tyler" that she can't ignore, and is just beginning to allow herself to explore it, not yet realizing that it may be because he is every bit as damaged and conflicted and out of place among the others as she has always felt herself to be. She's in for yet another trauma, but just maybe the relationship will turn out to be one ultimately more healing than further damaging for her, and for "Tyler" as well...
-MMoM
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C
Captain pl1ngpl0ng
Guest
Yes, but there are other ways to react that would make just as much sense, i was kinda hoping they (the writers) would take a more exciting path
(unless of course ash turns out to be someone else entirely at the end of this novel and a slow build would be imposible)
It's meta-gaming thinking but that's where my mind goes as well. Tyler seems to be one of the better characters and it would be a shame to see him go to waste once the presumed reveal is dropped. It would be nice to be able to salvage him after this whole Voq thing is over (presuming it is a thing...).
Then just show us some explosive Klingon-Vulcan sex and be done with it dammit! Enough already with the trembling brows and kissy faces. Isn't this on a streaming site where we can see more than on frickin CBS?!
I think it makes perfect sense. After a lifetime of being emotionally guarded and closeted, due to a combination of her childhood trauma, compounded by her Vulcan upbringing, and then further by bonding with no one aboard the Shenzhou but Georgiou, and then losing her too (and through her own actions, as she perceives it) Burnham now feels an inexplicable attraction to "Tyler" that she can't ignore, and is just beginning to allow herself to explore it, not yet realizing that it may be because he is every bit as damaged and conflicted and out of place among the others as she has always felt herself to be. She's in for yet another trauma, but just maybe the relationship will turn out to be one ultimately more healing than further damaging for her, and for "Tyler" as well...
-MMoM
Put that way, I like... but for the godawful dialogue!!!
The only way you get something like that is by stitching together every single take of every single scene (inc. aborted/alternate angles/TV friendly takes) in script order. So you'd see take 1, 2, 3, however many there were of Scene 1 before going to Scene 2, and so on. That's the raw footage you have right at the end of production, before any FX/ADR/music is done.
The most complete version of Lynch's Dune I've seen is a fanedit running just under three hours. I'd say there's at most 10 minutes of deleted footage still unaccounted for after that, more likely 5.
Lynch's Dune was a steaming pile of horseshit then, and it is now. I wish I'd never wasted the time watching it the one and only time I suffered through it. It was ridiculous, overwrought, and puerile, much like any other Lynch project. Fortunately, I got my popcorn money back after complaining.
And I should know better than to rate an episode right after it airs. After watching it again, I'd drop this episode of DISCO to a 4. Script was wonky, pacing was off, performances were unconvincing. They're losing me significantly faster than Enterpoop did. Or maybe my tolerance for crap TV has evaporated.
And I should know better than to rate an episode right after it airs. After watching it again, I'd drop this episode of DISCO to a 4. Script was wonky, pacing was off, performances were unconvincing. They're losing me significantly faster than Enterpoop did. Or maybe my tolerance for crap TV has evaporated.
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T'Bonz, you are drunk. Comparing Ensign "I will be Captain, so suck it. I am also the best thing about STD" Tilly to Wesley "Please shoot me out of the airlock" Crusher. Tilly WILL be captain. Kill Lorca, demote Saru for mental instability and promote Tilly to Captain by end season 2 at latest (if Kirk can go from ensign to Captain in one movie, so can Tilly). That would be a less convoluted arc than getting mutineer Burnham back to 1st officer. But imagine Burnham/Tilly as 1st Officer and Captain. That would not be half bad.
You forget she just spent seven years on the Shenzhou surrounded by a (mostly) human crew. She's never had a romantic relationship before, but that doesn't mean she's emotionally distant. More to the point, Sarek didn't completely raise her in the Vulcan way. He educated her, sure, and made sure she was qualified and accomplished enough to take any opportunity she wanted. But Sarek was married to Amanda, who was quick to encourage even her half vulcan son to embrace whatever heritage he could most comfortably identify with. Burnham hides her emotions because she doesn't want to be ostracized or mocked by the other Vulcans, but she isn't raised AS a Vulcan.
There's also the fact that Burnham wasn't BORN into a Vulcan family either and her education on Vulcan comes relatively late in her life. She is quite a bit older than Spock too (I'm guessing she has at least 8 years on him) so she might not have been with Sarek and Amanda for all that long.
C
Captain pl1ngpl0ng
Guest
I DID forget about that =)
Im not sure what age shes supposed to be here, but its clear she is a young girl.
So she must have been with them for a while
I just wish she was more vulcan in her behaviour i guess..
I enjoyed this one quite a bit. It was nice to get so much focus on Saru, and the aliens they were dealing with were interesting.
I'm not to bothered by the stuff with Burnham and Tyler, and I think it will really get interesting if the theories about Tyler are correct.
Corwell and L'Rell's story was good too. It will be very interesting to see where they go with L'Rell now.
I'm not to bothered by the stuff with Burnham and Tyler, and I think it will really get interesting if the theories about Tyler are correct.
Corwell and L'Rell's story was good too. It will be very interesting to see where they go with L'Rell now.
Sorry, my bad. So 4 episodes between 47-50 minutes long. Still half the episodes were at least 4 minutes longer than typical broadcast.