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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x08 - "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

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...It seems more and more likely that this is where the differences between broadcast TV and Netflix-type feed should have been properly exploited to do away with artificial "episode" borders: there's likely to be a good story here, but pacing it shouldn't be this rigid and difficult.

Timo Saloniemi

They just aren't utilizing the format well. To few episodes, too short, too much they are trying to do.

This show should easily be a 20+ episode run, it isn't the marvel shows, you don't have one show about each character with a short show showcasing all, you have one show about all characters, and that's all you have.
 
Saru lied about contacting Lorca. How does that make it mutiny? Kirk lied to his underlings

I actually kinda agree here.

Saru was in charge of the mission, and chose, very correctly according to Starfleet protocol, NOT to use the crystal spire transmitter.

It was then that Burnham and Tyler, with little to no evidence*, decided that he had been “compromised”, committed mutiny and broke StarFleet regulations by using the transmitter.


*Aside from Saru acting somewhat unusual. Which under no circumstances should be enough to decide to relieve him of command. When the crew of the Enterprise in ENT faced similar circumstances, they didn’t do anything before the doctor had examined the captain.
 
I actually kinda agree here.

Saru was in charge of the mission, and chose, very correctly according to Starfleet protocol, NOT to use the crystal spire transmitter.

It was then that Burnham and Tyler, with little to no evidence*, decided that he had been “compromised”, committed mutiny and broke StarFleet regulations by using the transmitter.


*Aside from Saru acting somewhat unusual. Which under no circumstances should be enough to decide to relieve him of command. When the crew of the Enterprise in ENT faced similar circumstances, they didn’t do anything before the doctor had examined the captain.

Little to no evidence?

wth? I thought it was pretty obvious.
 
They might argue Saru is out of his mind, or a Klingon in disguise, or perhaps dead and just faking being alive. This wouldn't change the decisions he made, as they appeared utterly legal and in line with Starfleet regulations. Saru lied about the extraction plan, but he didn't lie that Lorca rather than he himself would have made the decision not to use the planet. And he didn't fabricate circumstances preventing Burnham and Tyler from countermanding him, as he needed no circumstances for that. It would be the default position of the landing party hierarchy instead.

Timo Saloniemi
 
They might argue Saru is out of his mind, or a Klingon in disguise, or perhaps dead and just faking being alive. This wouldn't change the decisions he made, as they appeared utterly legal and in line with Starfleet regulations. Saru lied about the extraction plan, but he didn't lie that Lorca rather than he himself would have made the decision not to use the planet. And he didn't fabricate circumstances preventing Burnham and Tyler from countermanding him, as he needed no circumstances for that. It would be the default position of the landing party hierarchy instead.

Timo Saloniemi

That all sounds well and good but by the time we get to maniacally crushing their communications devices it's obvious that he is out of his gourd.
 
That all sounds well and good but by the time we get to maniacally crushing their communications devices it's obvious that he is out of his gourd.

But not committing mutiny. That's still Specialist Burnham's specialty.

Timo Saloniemi
 
...It seems more and more likely that this is where the differences between broadcast TV and Netflix-type feed should have been properly exploited to do away with artificial "episode" borders: there's likely to be a good story here, but pacing it shouldn't be this rigid and difficult.

Timo Saloniemi
Agreed. If you're going to go the streaming route rather than the broadcast, do it properly so you can take full advantage of it. Very frustrating. Enjoying the series overall but CBS doesn't seem to get that aspect of it.
 
Kinda thinking if we see a Mirror evil Captain Tilly she could look a little bit like...

Janeway_Tilly.jpg
 
Kinda thinking if we see a Mirror evil Captain Tilly she could look a little bit like...

Janeway_Tilly.jpg

I figured mirror universe tilly would be almost exactly like tilly, except her quircks instead of being sweet natured and cute, would be utterly crazy, instead of getting a whim to set her co workers up together, it would be to go murder someone instead.
 
The space-battle in the teaser looked very good! Sadly, it took precious screen-time away from the heavily under-developed main plot. But at least we see a bit more of the war going on.

I have no evidence to support this, but I do wonder in retrospect if they inserted the combat at the beginning of the episode to give Lorca something to do last week. He wasn't involved in any of the other plots, and I'm not even sure he is seen again in the episode. DS9 used to do things like this all the time - have stupid little opening/closing scenes to ensure the main cast who weren't featured in an episode still made an appearance.
 
This episode has a lot of the same problems most of the previous episodes had: A lack of focus. Too many subplots, but the major one was an almost by-the-numbers re-telling of already existing Trek stories. That being said, it seems like the writers get a better graps at their characters, which is good.

The plot
While all previous stories had some arc-elements to them, this is the first two(?)-parter since the pilot. The main plot - the strange planet and te klingons - are going to reappear next episode. Wise decision of the creators to give us the next episode as well. Would this have been the final episode before the break, I'd be rather unimpressed. Let's have a look at this episode's plots:

A-plot:
Burnham, Tyler and Saru are on an away mission on planet Canadian forest to use a crystal structure for the war, and meet some energy beings. They make Saru go nuts, and he has to be overpowered/reasoned with. Then the energy-beings send signals to the Discovery and the klingons.
B-plot: Klingon chick interrogates Admiral chick, wants to defect, gets busted by Kol.
C-plot: Tilly learns about Stamets condition.

The characters
Saru was the main focus of this episode. There isn't too much of an character arc, with him going mad and all, but we learn that he lives in a constant state of fear, and also about some neat new powers - running fast and stuff. IMO all of that was handeled quite well.

Burnham and Tyler share their first non-timeloop kiss. We see Burnham struggle with that. We also learn about how she keeps being very precise and logical even in extreme situations, and being very by-the-books regarding protocol, which fits her character nicely. But also that she wants to solve problems peacefully if given the chance, trying to talk reason into Saru, and maybe even the klingons. Tyler OTOH hates the klingons, further evidence that he doesn't know about the Voq-thing.

Tilly was waaay toned down this episode, which worked great. If they keep the level of her social awkwardness like in this episode, she might become my new Barclay. Stamets sometimes feels like the old snarky one again, but the jumps make him act erratic, and out of character sometimes. I want to see more about him - but I am not looking forward to Mirror universe episodes - this serries already relies way too much on previous established Trek lore.

The L'Rell arc was the most tedious one. We don't know what she wants - is her attempt at defection genuine? Does she want to get to Discovery to reactivate Voq? Is she in cahoots with Kol? (Probably not) The point is: We don't know either motivations of her or anyone else, which makes the whole sub-plot boring. Having the actors speak under make-up so heavy they can't act, and false teeth in a made-up language so that they can't speak properly, is really, really annoying.

The presentation
The space-battle in the teaser looked very good! Sadly, it took precious screen-time away from the heavily under-developed main plot. But at least we see a bit more of the war going on. What was GREAT is that they change the entire vegetation of the planet to "blue". It makes it feel so much more alien. The vfx of the crystal structure and the aliens was servicable. All around, the visuals were very good. Where the episode struggled was pacing and focus, especially missing on the important stuff. Especially the main plot - Saru's gone mad - was in dire need of at least SOME changes to the formula, and not doing again such a clichéd by-the-numbers Trek staple story without any unexpected twists or addition to the trope.

Nitpicks
  • Soooo. Saru definitely staged a mutiny right here, right?!? Or do they have an "alien influence"-clause? Anyway, it kind of diminishes the severity of Burnham's "first" mutiny again, since this stuff happens regularly on Trek...
  • Stamets calls Tilly "Captain". Alternate universe or time-travel influence...? :D
  • The spaceship in the opening battle looked AMAZING! Does she fit in the TOS-aesthetic? No. Do I care? No. I like that ship.
  • This entire two--parter is going to be an exact re-telling of TOS "Errand of Mercy", just without the reveal, isn't it?
  • First rule of space opera: funky space crystal! Fits great with Trek. Not so great with the grim realism-tone they are aiming for
  • I still really fucking hate the new klingon ship designs. They're stupid, and don't look half as good as a model from the 60s. Fire the guy who came up with them (and everyone who approved them as well), and let John Eaves design some real klingon ships
  • The energy beings look so much like the spores! As did the space-anomaly that threatened Burnhams prison shuttle in ep3 "Context is for Kings". Apparently this is the only lightning vfx this guys have in their computers...

Gratitious Gore counter
Like every episode since the two-part pilot, this episode has some extremely unnecessary extreme gore going on. This time: Mutilated klingon corpes, with guts and intestines being in the middle of the frame. Stop that!

Final Verdict
Fine. Not bad. But nor really good either. Let's see if they have something in their sleeves for the second part, so far, this one was rather unimpressing. If the next episode is also going to be this predictable in all their sub-plots, I'm going to be disappointed.
Agree 100% with everything here. In fact, when I first saw the blue speckles, I honestly first thought they had discovered the planet of origin for the spores. From there, my mind thought this entire world could be a spore-drive hub for the entire fleet. Instead, we do definitely seem to have an Organian-like species with some serious naiveté issues with how things work in the galaxy as they pertain to the forces at play here. For an enlightened species, they don't seem to be very bright. Pun kind-of intended.

And Saru...oh, Saru. Yeah, I had my rant about him earlier in the thread. I think Doug Jones is a great actor and the writers are doing him a great disservice by engaging in a bit of character assassination here. He's doing the best with what he's got but what he's given really seems to be kind of shitty, IMO. They've given him some pretty difficult genetically-induced psychological baggage to overcome.
Saru is starting to get a little overpowered, IMHO.

He’s got his threat-ganglia, super sight, super hearing. Oh, he can also run super fast for a long period of time.

What sort of über-predator is his species hunted by on his homeworld? And why doesn’t Starfleet leave Saru on the crystalspire planet , and go recruit some of those guys instead?
They talked about that briefly in the AfterTrek show. Definitely something people want to see.

What I want to know is, how does a prey species like the Kelpians, under apparently constant assault from some mysterious apex predator - assumed to also be sentient - have enough time, resources and security to develop a warp-capable society in order to be invited into the Federation? How could a world torn between two warring species like this even be a Federation member? I definitely want to see more about the Kelpians - not Saru, but definitely the Kelpians.
 
I just forced myself to watch the episode. I can't even get up the energy to rant. It was a crap episode, with mostly crap characters. I hope Stamos dies in a very painful way before the season is over. Burnham is now just here to have a romance because obviously that's the story they're going to do with her. Lorca is ok but nothing special. Really, if everyone but Tilly die I'll be fine with it. I'm not even that big a fan of Tilly (party girl Tilly from last episode really soured me to the character), but she's the only semi-main cast member who isn't an ass or just boring. Havingseason 2 start with Tilly waking up on a real starship (that has actual lights and real Star Trek uniforms and doesn't have terribnle interior design) with the whole first season being a dream is really the only way to save STD at this point.

Oh, and the "klingons" are still the worst aliens in the entire franchise. Nothing much elkse to say about their sections. Overall this episode was a bit less insulting then the "Harry Mudd is a literal deity" episode from last week, but that is a low bar. I rated this episode a 3/10.
And you watch because...?
 
I actually kinda agree here.

Saru was in charge of the mission, and chose, very correctly according to Starfleet protocol, NOT to use the crystal spire transmitter.

It was then that Burnham and Tyler, with little to no evidence*, decided that he had been “compromised”, committed mutiny and broke StarFleet regulations by using the transmitter.


*Aside from Saru acting somewhat unusual. Which under no circumstances should be enough to decide to relieve him of command. When the crew of the Enterprise in ENT faced similar circumstances, they didn’t do anything before the doctor had examined the captain.
He destroyed their communicators.
 
They might argue Saru is out of his mind, or a Klingon in disguise, or perhaps dead and just faking being alive. This wouldn't change the decisions he made, as they appeared utterly legal and in line with Starfleet regulations. Saru lied about the extraction plan, but he didn't lie that Lorca rather than he himself would have made the decision not to use the planet. And he didn't fabricate circumstances preventing Burnham and Tyler from countermanding him, as he needed no circumstances for that. It would be the default position of the landing party hierarchy instead.

Timo Saloniemi
He destroyed their communicators.
 
Saru lied about contacting Lorca. How does that make it mutiny? Kirk lied to his underlings all the time - it's his prerogative.

Timo Saloniemi

You're kidding, right? Disobeying your superior officers orders and going rogue just cuz? It's not his prerogative. He's being a selfish asshat.
 
...It seems more and more likely that this is where the differences between broadcast TV and Netflix-type feed should have been properly exploited to do away with artificial "episode" borders: there's likely to be a good story here, but pacing it shouldn't be this rigid and difficult.

Timo Saloniemi

Indeed. It's like they're giving us the worst of both worlds: artificially shortened episodes to conform to standard broadcast time slots with the added hassle of needing something other than a TV w/ cable/satellite/broadcast service. And then there's the whole subscription model on top of that.

Is the only benefit we've seen so far the occasional, gratuitous "fuck?"
 
EDIT: I obviously could be wrong, in which case we’ll see Saru doing nothing but scrubbing the decks and polishing silverware for the next two episodes, but I kinda doubt it.


It’s kinda hard to comprehend that there (apparently) won’t be any consequences for Saru for scuttling the mission and endangering his fellow officers.

I can’t imagine a military where his actions wouldn’t lead to a court martial. (And before somebody says “But it’s war maaan!” Accountability and discipline is especially important during a war. Pulling stuff like this usually gets punished harder in wartime than in peacetime.

Or at least drop him off at the planet, if he’s so keen on it, and have him explore the place.

Instead Lorca & co. seem to be all: “Insubordination, no biggie! Happens to the best of them!” And make it look like it’s either amateur hour at Starfleet, or like Lorca is trying to build a collection of mutineers for his ship. Or both.
It's obvious the writers really don't know what to do with Saru. I agree with CardassianAssassin...
 
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