I've seen more seductive K-Mart ads. Are we really calling women in their underwear gratuitous?
Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
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I've seen more seductive K-Mart ads. Are we really calling women in their underwear gratuitous?
What the hell?
I would have actually enjoed that little joke, if it weren't in the exact same scene were she demanded favouritism of her superiour.
It had the sex appeal of a teacher hitting on one of his sudent (which, you know, it actually was). And I don't care who exactly had what role in this relationship. The whole thing was weirdly unappropriete, and frankly, none of the characters involved got away in a good light. The only difference is that the other characters had actually stuff to do beyond that. For Uhura, that was the one trick of her one-trick-pony character.
The only character that comes off looking bad is Spock. Because he allowed his relationship to keep him from assigning the best people to the best positions.
exactly, it isn't.
but hey, why should hollywood represent our world in 2016?
next you will say they are racist because they made her more prominent just because she's black and to be politically correct.
again, according to some people hollywood must only tell stories about cis white male dudes because anything different is an expression of some 'ism'.
what you prefer has no relevance to the point and, frankly, isn't even the most popular opinion in the reboot fandom or critics
These movies already have their main male characters who are Kirk and Spock. Mccoy, Scotty and the others are secondary characters and making them leads is not a necessity.
you can want more Mccoy, or Scotty or anyone here but still have the common sense to understand that having more McCoy isn't mutually exclusive with the role Uhura ALREADY has in the reboot and its already established dynamics with the (actual) lead male characters.
You shouldn't need to sideline her character or reduce her screentime to give more screentime to your faves. If you need to do that, then it means your faves must be very weak characters if they apparently can't stand the 'competition' of a woman who has a similar importance in the narrative.
my reaction exactly while reading rants about this that I have already read a million of times.
Spock has been shown to have suicidal tendencies, which Uhura is aware of, being his significant other. They are going on a critical mission, and these tendencies need to be known to their commanding officer, which is why she brings it up when she does.
Where in the movies does it say she is boning her superior to get promoted???? NO WHERE is that implied! She gives Spock a list of her qualifications to be on the Enterprise, and he agrees. . . when she catches Kirk in her bedroom, she'd been working at the sensor lab for extra credit. . . she is consistently shown to be one of the smarter characters in the ensemble.
So here's a question. . . . what is your definition of strong female character? Just so we are all working from the same page.
~FS
originally, it was about Kirk, but Spock's popularity made Roddenberry&co realize that if they didn't want that to turn into an obstacle for Kirk's popularity as the lead, and a competition between the characters, they had to make it so most of Spock's scenes were with Kirk so people would love Kirk because of Spock too.
The reboot is different and basically it is the natural 'evolution' of what Spock became in fandom, thus they made this Spock more a protagonist with Kirk than just 'the friend' (and a symptom of that IS his relationship with Uhura too. Because this Spock gets to access to the narrative elements Kirk does too and he too has his own dynamic separated from the 'bromance')
basic narrative 101 says that usually secondary characters get more screentime if they interact with the protagonist more than other secondary characters, and tos followed that too because original Spock and McCoy essentially got more screentime through a relationship with the main male character. Some people want that, for McCoy and Scotty at least, to happen in the reboot too and for their faves to get more prominent through more screentime with the main guys who are K/S here, ALL THE WHILE the same people keep concern trolling about Uhura being 'the girlfriend' and her being more prominent as a character through her dynamics with K/S. Funny how that works.
Well, it doesn't change the fact that TOS was focused on three characters, regardless of original intention. Spock was originally intended to be emotional, as evidenced by The Cage.
I hope you're not implying Karl Urban isn't extraordinarily charming himself
Oh, come on.
I understand you're a big fan of the reboots, but seriously? You're defending that now?
What did I just say about not making things personal? Please do better.
When have I not defended it?
"Sorry Captain. I need to go to my quarters to change into my flight suit even though we're sitting on the edge of the Klingon Neutral Zone."
I didn't find Eve in her underwear any more gratuitous than Sherry Jackson's get up in "What are Little Girls Made Of?", or the various catsuits worn by Marina Sirtis, Jeri Ryan or Jolene Blaylock. Among other scantily clad women Star Trek has given us over the decades.
Oh muh God!!! She's got Boobies!
Whait, what? Are you serious?
How about relocating this relationship-BS to BEFORE or after a critical mission? That's the reason "no-fraternity"_rules exist!
Oh, I dunno. Maybe the scene where she explicitely demands to be promoted, combined with doing a on-the-nose-double-entendre to the superiour she's boning and demanding benefits off?
The prime examples would be Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley. I don't necessarely need STRONG female characters. I'm completely happy with CHARACTERS. Joss Whedon usually is pretty good with it. GRRM writes a lot of complex, interesting women. Major Carter from SG-1. Most women from Battlestar Galactica (most of whom aren't actually "strong", but "characters"). Most of them have relationships. Sex. Friendships. Fears. Goals. But they aren't defined by their relationship to a man. All of them have an agency on their own. Characteristics. Flaws. The feel like "real" people. They aren't just a bunch of boobs that get allocated to the main character....
Have you seen "Catwoman"? The horrible film with Halley Berry? That's actually a good gender-swapped example. There's a male police officer in the movie. His only characteristics are "looking good", "being perfect" and "being the love interest for the main character". If you have ever seen Catwoman, remember how you felt about the guy that Catwoman falls in love with. That pretty much sums up how I feel about Uhura in the new JJTrek movies...
I wouldn't have minded a bit of characer surrounding the boobs. As all the other examples you just listed had. There's nothing wrong with a women in her underwear. There's something wrong with a movie shoving it up your throat "you like boobies? HERE SEE WE GOT BOOBIES FOR YOU! PLEAS STAY AND LIKE US."
I read in the original draft she was changing into a spacesuit. In this case the scene would have made sense, because there would have been a narrative reason for her to change clothes. As it was presented, it reminded me of all those gratitous "sexposition" scenes from early Game of Thrones in Littlefingers brothel.
If they were going for titillation, they totally failed with me. I guess being in my forties and seeing a good share of boobs up close and personal, Eve in her underwear had zero effect on me. She was someone changing clothes.
Reading misogynistic arguments about Uhura make me feel some pity for writers. It must really suck when you tell a story, but some people pretend it's a completely different thing because they are too focused projecting their own sexism and double standards on you.
If you don't like the woman fine, but pretending that your 'try too hard' hatred for her having agency like the guys is some sort of 'pro good role models for women' activism is a like a bad joke written by someone without sense of humor.
If you don't like the woman fine, but pretending that your 'try too hard' hatred for her having agency like the guys is some sort of 'pro good role models for women' activism is a like a bad joke written by someone without sense of humor.
What the hell happened to this thread!? 
Whait, what? Are you serious?
How about relocating this relationship-BS to BEFORE or after a critical mission? That's the reason "no-fraternity"_rules exist!
Oh yes. I am serious, and btw, the word you are looking for is "fraternization," and those rules don't exist in Star Trek. . . see "Balance of Terror" where Kirk is officiating at a wedding between two crew members, Angela Martine and Robert Tomlinson; see Scotty and Mira Romaine in "The Lights of Zetar," see Riker and Troi, or Worf and Troi in STTNG, or Worf and Dax in DS9; etc. . . .so the "no-fraternity rules" is a completely BS argument.
Promotion? Oh you mean the scene where Spock wants to avoid the "appearance of favoritism" -- meaning someone, somewhere at the Academy obviously already knows about their relationship -- and Uhura calmly lists her accomplishments as the best Xenolinguist in the Academy and how hard she worked for a place on the Enterprise, which she would have gotten if someone who was not trying to avoid the "appearance of favoritism" had been making the assignments? That scene? That's a duty assigment, not a promotion. Spock calls her a lieutenant in that scene. . . .
So, basically, you ignore all of the things that Uhura actually does in the movies, which others have gone through them time and again, in thread after thread, and the fact that she has "Sex. Friendships. Fears. Goals," because you see her as defined by her relationship with Spock. Nevermind the fact that as a secondary character, she is, by definition, defined by her relationships to the main characters. . .
Oooookay. . . umhmmmmmm. . . .
~FS
A
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Hell, I am a lonely miserable human being practically starving for human affection but I didn't think anything of Alice Eve's changing scene, either. I thought it was cute because she was completely wise to Kirk's mannerisms. I saw no gratuitous anything in that shot.
Quoted for emphasis. Also, as an additional example, Picard has a serious relationship with his chief science officer in a role as well. So, whatever rules exist in contemporary military rules Starfleet has no such compunction. A similar thing was supposed to exist about sexuality being more open in GR's "vision" but that was scaled back due to network concerns.Oh yes. I am serious, and btw, the word you are looking for is "fraternization," and those rules don't exist in Star Trek. . . see "Balance of Terror" where Kirk is officiating at a wedding between two crew members, Angela Martine and Robert Tomlinson; see Scotty and Mira Romaine in "The Lights of Zetar," see Riker and Troi, or Worf and Troi in STTNG, or Worf and Dax in DS9; etc. . . .so the "no-fraternity rules" is a completely BS argument.
Promotion? Oh you mean the scene where Spock wants to avoid the "appearance of favoritism" -- meaning someone, somewhere at the Academy obviously already knows about their relationship -- and Uhura calmly lists her accomplishments as the best Xenolinguist in the Academy and how hard she worked for a place on the Enterprise, which she would have gotten if someone who was not trying to avoid the "appearance of favoritism" had been making the assignments? That scene? That's a duty assigment, not a promotion. Spock calls her a lieutenant in that scene. . . .
So, basically, you ignore all of the things that Uhura actually does in the movies, which others have gone through them time and again, in thread after thread, and the fact that she has "Sex. Friendships. Fears. Goals," because you see her as defined by her relationship with Spock. Nevermind the fact that as a secondary character, she is, by definition, defined by her relationships to the main characters. . .
Oooookay. . . umhmmmmmm. . . .
~FS
As for Uhura, I'll echo what was said by others-Uhura was asserting her competence to be assigned to the Enterprise and the only reason she wasn't was because Spock was afraid it would like he was giving his girlfriend that assignment on their relationship not merit. You know, the exact thing they keep getting accused of! Can't win, I guess.
At most, to me, it seemed unnecessary. But, I've seen more gratuitous shots in contemporary media, so I guess it doesn't bother me. Unnecessary, yes but not a deal breaker.
But... but... but... BOOBIES!!!
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