Star Trek and Superweapons (Beyond spoilers)

[BigJake]

The funny thing about Genesis is that there was never any actual evidence that Khan himself planned to use it as a weapon on anyone. (I mean I can hear the rationalizations coming: he's Khan! He's evil! Why wouldn't he! But the whole point about Khan, even in TWOK, was that he was evil within certain bounds, a Napoleonesque figure who cared about his personal prestige but also about building as well as destroying.) Kruge totes wanted to weaponize it in the next movie, but AFAICT Khan's whole game was that he wanted a habitable planet for his peeps after the ordeal they went through.

That said, the "villain-with-a-death-ray" trope is way overused in Trek movies. I'll completely cop to the Arbonath being an example of that, although somehow it seems less stupid than "red matter" did despite its function having been made no more specific. I wouldn't be sad to see the back of it.

 

[DonIago]

I liked that the Arbonath was prefigured in what's almost an otherwise throwaway sequence at the beginning of the film. It's explicitly mentioned that it was stolen and was part of an ancient weapon, but if you're not paying attention you miss it.

 

[publiusr]

I can just imagine Vengeance full of the Krall swarm ships. genesis torpedo and all that.

That'd be a match for Star Destroyers.

 

[Cyke101]

Couldn't survive? IIRC there's no clear evidence that he dies.

Sure, but after that photon torpedo, God was pissed. He was ready to smite the heathen disbeliever. Smite him, I say!

 

[Timo]

Actually, it was always completely unclear, why somebody from spacefaring civilization need any complicated superveapons to just destroy the enemy planets.

In some of the movies, it's not "somebody from a civilization" - it's a desperate underdog, like Nero the unarmed civilian miner, or Soran the well-meaning bookworm. In others, it's not "to just destroy", but to cause specific sorts of suffering, as with Rua'fo the patricide or Shinzon the slayer of empires. In yet others, the weapon is not "needed" - it exists in the plot for some other reason, like Khan's Genesis device.

Krall's "superweapon" combines the first and third columns: he's an unarmed underdog at first, and the weapon and its delivery system essentially drop on his lap unasked.

The old Heinlein maneuver (drop the rock from space) worked perfectly. Just get this rock at sublight speed, and its kinetic energy would do more damage to planet than "Narada", talaron weapon and Genesis combined.

VOY "Rise" shows that it just plain doesn't work: regular asteroids are trivially disposed of by single starships. Accelerating something the size of the Moon is beyond most villains, yet Spock thought he could deal with that sort of threat anyway in "Paradise Syndrome", again with a single ship.

Now, accelerating superdense asteroids to warp might achieve something (or then warp defeats kinetic energy altogether), but then we're off the deep end of the superweapon pool.

AFAICT Khan's whole game was that he wanted a habitable planet for his peeps after the ordeal they went through.

I doubt Khan ever had any patience for colonization. Not when setting out on the Botany Bay, not after taking over Kirk's ship, and certainly not after taking over Terrell's ship. He wanted to rule, and ruling over his own crew was never going to cut it. Colonization was the lame consolation prize Kirk offered him at the end of "Space Seed", a novel idea to the supervillain.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[topcat]

ten people from the forum would go watch "trouble for tribbles" done as st 4 staring pike and quinto.

However the whole country goes to see quinto get into a fist fight with khan.

 

[topcat]

People do not understand Khan, either version.
The st:wrath of Khan was about revenge upon kirk, Starfleet, for forgetting to keep their word and check in on them. Khan and crew left earth to survive the end of the war, and to keep their dream of a perfect society going. When they failed to take over the enterprise, the choice of a new world to conquer was good. when kirk and star fleet forgot about them.... well things go bad.

Khan in ST into darkness was twisted, still khan at the core, but when combined with a nutso star fleet admiral.... he realizes he can have the super war, be intergalactic and not restricted to a mere planet.

Soran wasn't trying to do anything bad, except get BACK to the energy ribbon. so what if a few planets need to die..

Shinzon was the clone project that was never used as intened to infiltrate star fleet, sent to the mines, raised by remans, used as a super soldier in the war with the dominion and then tossed aside after words. He just wanted revenge on someone..

 

[DarthPipes]

As much as I liked Beyond, I have wished for the movies to get away from the "bad man with a big gun" storyline for a long time.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I don't mind Superweapons in Star Trek.