Star Trek and Liberalism....

[T'Girl]

Angela kneeling in prayer prior to Kirk beginning to speak (imo) makes it a Christian ceremony.

 

[1001001]

the GOP majority in Congress and their unwillingness to admit climate change

A admission that could lead to disastrous regulations and international agreements that would put America at a inferior manufacturing and international trade position in comparison to nations like China and India (and others).

What possible advantage would there be to such an admission
to the America people?

The Republican's official position is the correct one, the public position of some Democrats on this matter is nothing but foolishness.

Well, Star Trek seems to have been left in the dust pages ago.

I am very tempted to argue with you, but this isn't Miscellaneous or TNZ.

I understand the nature of this topic would lead to these kinds of political debates, and I want to be fair. so everyone please try to stay within the fictional universe.

Or start a new thread in one of those more appropriate forums.

Thanks

 

[T'Girl]

Or start a new thread in one of those more appropriate forums

Not an interesting enough subject to bother doing so.

Besides we appear to have veered back to Star Trek already, time to leave politics behind and engage in a nice pleasant round of religion in Star Trek.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

I'm pretty sure the wedding in "Balance of Terror" isn't Christian per se, but nondenominational. Here's what Kirk says before the alert cuts him off:

Since the days of the first wooden vessels, all shipmasters have had one happy privilege. That of uniting two people in the bonds of matrimony. We are gathered here today with you, Angela Martine, and you, Robert Tomlinson, in the sight of your fellows, in accordance with our laws and our many beliefs (emphasis mine) so that you may pledge your

Based on that passage, I'd hardly describe the wedding as Christian. As for Angela's kneeling in prayer in the final scene of the episode, she's too distraught to speak at first, she never mentions a god or gods to Kirk, and we don't know what she's thinking but leaves unsaid.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm pretty sure the wedding in "Balance of Terror" isn't Christian per se, but nondenominational. Here's what Kirk says before the alert cuts him off:

Since the days of the first wooden vessels, all shipmasters have had one happy privilege. That of uniting two people in the bonds of matrimony. We are gathered here today with you, Angela Martine, and you, Robert Tomlinson, in the sight of your fellows, in accordance with our laws and our many beliefs (emphasis mine) so that you may pledge your

Based on that passage, I'd hardly describe the wedding as Christian. As for Angela's kneeling in prayer in the final scene of the episode, she's too distraught to speak at first, she never mentions a god or gods to Kirk, and we don't know what she's thinking but leaves unsaid.

Absolutely.

"Kneeling in prayer" doesn't make somebody Christian. Given the dialog at the beginning that expressly declared the service as non-denominational, there is no reason to assume that exclusively Christian behavior is being displayed at the end. There also aren't any traditional Christian symbols displayed that I can see.

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x14/balanceofterror008.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd021.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd026.jpg

The "space cross" visible over Kirk's right shoulder has extra horizontal strokes compared to a traditional Christian cross. Maybe it's a "space Christian" symbol, but then again maybe it's something else entirely. Then there's the other symbol, coequal with the "space cross" that I don't even recognize.

Given the American audience the episode was playing to, no doubt it was understood that some viewers would assume that Angela was a Christian. But nothing in the episode necessitates that assumption, and it's clearly implied that it's possible that Angela isn't even a Christian and possibly a member of a religion of the future.

 

[T'Girl]

Still, Angela does genuflect after Scotty walks her down the aisle, and there is a cross on the wall behind Kirk.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Based on that passage, I'd hardly describe the wedding as Christian. As for Angela's kneeling in prayer in the final scene of the episode, she's too distraught to speak at first, she never mentions a god or gods to Kirk, and we don't know what she's thinking but leaves unsaid.

The other overt Christian references or expressed beliefs in TOS (see the examples posted yesterday) lend strong support that Angela's prayer scene has a greater chance of being a display of some form of Christian faith than anything else.

 

[Mudd]

the GOP majority in Congress and their unwillingness to admit climate change

A admission that could lead to disastrous regulations...

If a thing is true and is a danger, then ignoring it or pretending that it is not true can produce no good result.

By accepting the term "admission" you've acknowledged that the thing is true.

 

[Kor]

You know, all the times I watched "Balance of Terror" growing up, I never even realized Angela was praying, because it's such a brief moment. I thought she was just pausing to collect her thoughts before diving in.

And then there's Kirk's line about "our many beliefs," as mentioned above. So it seems that even though she took a moment for her personal faith, it did not actually play a role in the secular-type ceremony that Kirk presided over.

Kor

 

[Mudd]

Yes; religious people do get married in civil ceremonies for a variety of reasons.

 

[T'Girl]

You know, all the times I watched "Balance of Terror" growing up, I never even realized Angela was praying, because it's such a brief moment.

Janice Rand (standing behind Kirk) also bows her head, while Angela is kneeling with head bowed.

The "space cross" visible over Kirk's right shoulder has extra horizontal strokes

The cross has many forms, from plain though extremely ornate.

 

[Mister Spock]

I'm as atheist as they come, but I've never been comfortable with the tendency for the Human aspects of the Federation to be quite patronising to others religious beliefs.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The "space cross" visible over Kirk's right shoulder has extra horizontal strokes

The cross has many forms, from plain though extremely ornate.

And? How does that determine what the symbol in the episode is?

More to the point, how does that contradict what I said that's boldfaced below? Here's the rest of my quote, which you cut off.

compared to a traditional Christian cross. Maybe it's a "space Christian" symbol, but then again maybe it's something else entirely. Then there's the other symbol, coequal with the "space cross" that I don't even recognize.

 

[Vger23]

I think these kinds of arguments are largely useless. As always, people who agree with the thesis of the article will say this is thoughtful and well done. People whose politics do not lean that way will say that it is rubbish and that the interpretations of the stories are wrong.

Wasted time unfortunately.

 

[DonIago]

The truth likely lies somewhere in between.

 

[Kor]

I think these kinds of arguments are largely useless. As always, people who agree with the thesis of the article will say this is thoughtful and well done. People whose politics do not lean that way will say that it is rubbish and that the interpretations of the stories are wrong.

Wasted time unfortunately.

And I say that articles that try to use Trek (or any pop culture, for that matter) as a vehicle to prove some point are generally ALL rubbish and always misinterpret the stories, no matter what ideological, political, academic, or philosophical stance the article writers are coming from.

Kor

 

[LadyT'Anna]

I think these kinds of arguments are largely useless. As always, people who agree with the thesis of the article will say this is thoughtful and well done. People whose politics do not lean that way will say that it is rubbish and that the interpretations of the stories are wrong.

Wasted time unfortunately.

And I say that articles that try to use Trek (or any pop culture, for that matter) as a vehicle to prove some point are generally ALL rubbish and always misinterpret the stories, no matter what ideological, political, academic, or philosophical stance the article writers are coming from.

Kor

Kor, that may just be a function of the fact that for every ten people who watch a Trek episode, there are at least eleven opinions at any given time. Throw in rewatches and that number can easily go up to twenty.

 

[RAMA]

Commerce over life and the planet? Sensible. LOL SO wrongheaded its hilarious.

A admission that could lead to disastrous regulations and international agreements that would put America at a inferior manufacturing and international trade position in comparison to nations like China and India (and others).

What possible advantage would there be to such an admission
to the America people?

The Republican's official position is the correct one, the public position of some Democrats on this matter is nothing but foolishness.