Star Ship Polaris

[Philo]

There are quite a few colors in the starfield but the stars are small and motion-blurred in these pics - I don't think we're anywhere near set on just how space will appear in this thing. I don't think we'll see any dayglo CG nebulae, though. I like space empty and dark, like...you know, like outer space.

Excellent! Good to hear. Yeah, I realize this is quite early in the process, I just wanted to put in my twenty-five cents, as FalTorPan so aptly put it.

As for the rollbar, it does look quite good from the rear three-quarters view but that seems to be it's only really good angle that I've seen so far. It doesn't look bad from any other angles (and in fact, your latest iteration is the best so far) but it doesn't really add anything either. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything to suggest.

Also wanted to mention I love the most recent detailing on the engine pods. Very nice!

 

[Shatna]

FREEZE. Dont go anywhere. Put your hand up in the air and dont move. We've been looking for you for quite a while.

Keep lookin', Sarge. I am swift, I am the wind.

 

[Jimmy_C]

Looking good. I like the visual style. I don't like the physics that much, though. What powers the ship and its landers? Most space on real rockets seems to be devoted to fuel. If the ship is constantly accelerating, that would take a lot of stored energy, right? And the landers seem kinda small to me to have enough potential energy to land and fly back from the surface of the Earth to whatever orbit the ship is on (and how to orbits work for a craft that always accellerates itself?) I like the radiators, though. Of course, a totally realistic portrayal would probably look like a cross between the International Space Station, Cassini, and the Discovery. I have no imagination! LOL

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm going to try this with a couple of different structures instead of the ring/rollbar and would appreciate feedback. They're just going to be simple shapes, no detailing or finished texturing.

First, the ship without the ring:

It looks real good, but there are a number of angles, especially when it's not filling the frame, where it's hard to read as unique.

Here's the first possible variation:

 

[FalTorPan]

The fins look okay as they are, but I wonder what they might look like if...

* they curled inward, almost like partial segments of the original rollbar, and/or
* they reached forward instead of aftward

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Those are both good possibilities. I did try the curved-inward and decided to post this one; I may work further on that.

Here's a simpler ring. I've not liked this in the past, but the way the shapes of the engines and the built-up rear are now it may actually be the best fit:

 

[chancellorjake]

I always liked the roll bar addition, but the ring looks incredible. It could be a very useful addition if properly fitted out.

 

[FalTorPan]

Those are both good possibilities. I did try the curved-inward and decided to post this one; I may work further on that.

Here's a simpler ring. I've not liked this in the past, but the way the shapes of the engines and the built-up rear are now it may actually be the best fit:

I like this ring a lot!

My only concern -- with this ring, the original rollbar ring, and the fins -- is that they might cast shadows that mask the geometry of the ship, unless the ship is lit in a "Star Trek style" (lots of fill light, or TMP-style self-illumination).

I don't have a problem with the shadows, but others might.

 

[ThomastheCat]

I think the simple ring fits the best... and, oh yeah, great job on the design and model in general.

 

[TheLoneRedshirt]

I like the ring but, honestly, I still like the rollbar best.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, shadows are always potentially a problem - you have to figure out how to light each model, and it's always at least a little different from others.

Thanks for the kind words about the design and modeling, Thomas. The ship was designed by aridas sofia; I've been modeling and detailing it.

There is something classic about the ring, and I expect that there are very few angles where it wouldn't pop.

 

[aridas sofia]

Looking good. I like the visual style. I don't like the physics that much, though. What powers the ship and its landers?

The ship would have a small reactor (fusion or perhaps m/am) powering something like Casimir cavities amidships (that create anti-gravitational negative energy) and micro-massive singularity containers (fore and aft) that are hypergravity sources. As I mentioned before, the forward singularity causes the fabric of space ahead of Polaris to contract, while the aft singularity causes the space behind the ship to expand. Polaris would ride a wave inside a warp bubble of flat space. The ship would not be moving within this warp bubble, but rather be "carried along" as the region of warped space moves. The scenario is something like a manufactured wormhole, with the throat being kept open by the ship's antigravity "rings." Instead of a warp bubble, or a wormhole, I call it a "warp tether," intentionally evoking the nautical sense of "warping" as a verb describing a ship's use of a rope to tug itself towards its destination.

As for the lander, my thinking is that since the ship is relatively small (too small for exotic antigravity technology), and needs to be durable and dependable for multiple landings, a simple nuclear rocket might be the best, most powerful "tried and true" technology. Whether there would be room in that lander for an advanced NERVA or some other type of nuclear motor, I haven't worked out. Obviously, if there's not enough room, either the design will be modified, or there will be an assumption that the tech has advanced to the point that it is possible.

Most space on real rockets seems to be devoted to fuel. If the ship is constantly accelerating, that would take a lot of stored energy, right? And the landers seem kinda small to me to have enough potential energy to land and fly back from the surface of the Earth to whatever orbit the ship is on (and how to orbits work for a craft that always accelerates itself?)

The one slice of pure bolognium in this scheme is my idea that one gee acceleration applied over time can charge artificial gravity generators for an equal amount of time via "stored momentum". Something about the relationship between time, gravity and momentum allows this, but in reality, its just the need for artificial gravity in situations like the orbit you mentioned that drives my appetite for the bolognium.

I think I can say that both Dennis and I would like to depict a technology that is not nearly as magical as that depicted in Star Trek, but is advanced enough to permit space opera with some respect for science. So, "maybe" technologies like negative energy and "warp tethers" can share the stage with an old stalwart like the nuclear rocket, and a pure fantasy concept like my gravity bank (which I'd get rid of if I could think of anything better).

 

[FrontLine]

FREEZE. Dont go anywhere. Put your hand up in the air and dont move. We've been looking for you for quite a while.

Keep lookin', Sarge. I am swift, I am the wind.

Well I guess as long as you dont claim to be a leaf on the wind it will turn out all right


As for the additions, bring back the roll bar. Those two other choices make the ship look unbalanced to me.

 

[Venardhi]

Perhaps a combination of the ring and the fins.

I'd also lean towards a slightly smaller 'exhaust' on the engines. The huge blue glow makes the ship feel a bit small(and yes, I know it IS small compared to the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer, but it should still feel somewhat large), and it is also a bit plain. Maybe even make the current nozzle into a housing for a cluster of smaller engines?

My 'productivity' computer is currently in pieces on the kitchen floor, thus why I haven't been able to contribute lately, but (hopefully) soon she'll be back up and running and I can finish up the rear end mods I started modeling a few weeks ago.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I favor a fusion reactor over an M/AM for the onboard systems as I'd expect it would be less exotic (more "tried and true" technology). Probably for the landers as well.

 

[Jimmy_C]

Looking good. I like the visual style. I don't like the physics that much, though. What powers the ship and its landers?

The ship would have a small reactor (fusion or perhaps m/am) powering something like Casimir cavities amidships (that create anti-gravitational negative energy) and micro-massive singularity containers (fore and aft) that are hypergravity sources. As I mentioned before, the forward singularity causes the fabric of space ahead of Polaris to contract, while the aft singularity causes the space behind the ship to expand. Polaris would ride a wave inside a warp bubble of flat space. The ship would not be moving within this warp bubble, but rather be "carried along" as the region of warped space moves. The scenario is something like a manufactured wormhole, with the throat being kept open by the ship's antigravity "rings." Instead of a warp bubble, or a wormhole, I call it a "warp tether," intentionally evoking the nautical sense of "warping" as a verb describing a ship's use of a rope to tug itself towards its destination.

As for the lander, my thinking is that since the ship is relatively small (too small for exotic antigravity technology), and needs to be durable and dependable for multiple landings, a simple nuclear rocket might be the best, most powerful "tried and true" technology. Whether there would be room in that lander for an advanced NERVA or some other type of nuclear motor, I haven't worked out. Obviously, if there's not enough room, either the design will be modified, or there will be an assumption that the tech has advanced to the point that it is possible.

Most space on real rockets seems to be devoted to fuel. If the ship is constantly accelerating, that would take a lot of stored energy, right? And the landers seem kinda small to me to have enough potential energy to land and fly back from the surface of the Earth to whatever orbit the ship is on (and how to orbits work for a craft that always accelerates itself?)

The one slice of pure bolognium in this scheme is my idea that one gee acceleration applied over time can charge artificial gravity generators for an equal amount of time via "stored momentum". Something about the relationship between time, gravity and momentum allows this, but in reality, its just the need for artificial gravity in situations like the orbit you mentioned that drives my appetite for the bolognium.

I think I can say that both Dennis and I would like to depict a technology that is not nearly as magical as that depicted in Star Trek, but is advanced enough to permit space opera with some respect for science. So, "maybe" technologies like negative energy and "warp tethers" can share the stage with an old stalwart like the nuclear rocket, and a pure fantasy concept like my gravity bank (which I'd get rid of if I could think of anything better).

Interesting, because you're making a Gravitational Quadrupole, with weird "negative energy" singularities as well as normal singularities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrupole

Your ship might emit gravitational waves, but the negative energy part complicates matters. If it was an electric field, far away then the potential might drop off as r^-4 from the center of the ship (it would be non-zero, though). Of course, you can't have very massive singularities, or the ship would crush itself.

Assuming it is like a pair of electric dipoles lined up with opposite polarity (+q ... -2q ... +q), with a ship length of d, then then if it was an electric field the potential would be from the center (looking at the front or back):

E = 3G(2qd^2)(r^-4)

On the other hand, if you reversed the singularities and negative energy sources, could you get negative potential (and thus maybe work the way you want it too)?

Also, when near a large gravitational body, you might get torque on your ship. Would that mean you can't engage the engines unless you are far enough away from a planet (unless you have enough structural integrity to survive).

Of course, I'm using electric fields to simulate gravitational fields, because I don't understand how to deal with gravitational fields well enough. IANAP yet.

 

[aridas sofia]

Also, when near a large gravitational body, you might get torque on your ship. Would that mean you can't engage the engines unless you are far enough away from a planet (unless you have enough structural integrity to survive).

Definitely. The scenario I envision has the ship dropping out of its warp envelope well away from any steep gravity well. I'd think it would re-enter normal space outside a star system and proceed at one gee -- banking gravity as it goes -- into the system, drawing off this "stored gravity" once it decelerates into orbit.

Thanks for the information about gravitational quadrupoles. The idea of using micromassive singularities for spacetime contraction and expansion has always fascinated me, at least since I first envisioned a science fiction description of an Alcubierre-Van Den Broeck warp drive for another project I was involved with. The difficulties of shielding the ship containing the singularities has been an interesting one to consider, and at one point left me writing of "spinning Podkletnov gravity shields" to deflect gravity waves.

Obviously, this historian is way over his head in the speculative physics department, and can sympathize with the desire expressed by Gene Roddenberry to tell stories "about people, not about science or gadgetry".

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Neither DIVX nor the reduced-size FLV format are very kind to this little test shot, but here it is:

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/dennisbailey/?action=view&current=polaristest5avi.flv

I don't think I have the bandwidth to post the larger video at my site right now. I may post some higher-resolution stills later. There's still a lot of modeling and texturing yet to go.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Looks good to me!

 

[chancellorjake]

Oh, now that is wonderful! It appears that you've added some details to the ring, as well. It really is a joy to see this ship come together.