• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Star Fleet Academy Question

The information presented about the inner workings and instructional content of real US military academies has been most enlightening (especially for someone who writes their own Trek stories :rommie:), and I thank those in this thread who have been providing it. It seems that Starfleet Academy and a real academy like West Point have a lot more in common in terms of instructional content than I had thought, which is actually very cool.

My take: Starfleet, as a whole, is essentially a fusion of both "the military" and a scientific/exploratory branch. But even that aspect of it is still conducted in a military fashion; i.e. even the science officers have ranks and some training in military protocols and combat tactics. In any case, it's undeniable that Starfleet is THE primary organization of the Federation as a whole when it comes to military actions and defense.

A lot of people talk about this idea that Kirk was "a soldier", that TOS had no problem referring to Starfleet as the military, and that it was TNG and the other 24th century shows that introduced the silly notion that it isn't. Well... I don't see it. Yes, TNG tries to be more "thoughtful", and there's a greater emphasis on diplomatic solutions, but nowhere on the show did anyone ever say "Oh, and Starfleet is NOT the military, by the way." I will grant that there was a different feel, but it wasn't concrete. And the fact remained, even without something as dramatic and direct as the Dominion war, in TNG when a problem arose that one would send a military unit to handle, who was sent to handle it? Starfleet. So I don't see this massive disconnect between TOS and 24th century Trek with respect to the military status of Starfleet. Well... Except for that one line by Riker in Peak Performance, where he dismisses tactical expertise as a "minor province" in the makeup of a Starfleet captain. That whole scene depicted Riker and Picard as having a certain disdainful "Feh, why do we have to do this uncivilized garbage" attitude toward the tactical training. I ignore this. It's contradicted not only by how important tactical and combat capability is shown to be throughout the show (including in incidents prior to that scene... Q Who, anyone?), but also by later events in that very episode: when the wargame simulation actually begins, the E-D crew demonstrate some keen tactical instincts (especially Riker and his outgunned team on the Hathaway), and it's clear that everyone involved - Picard, Riker, Geordi, Worf, random unnamed goldshirts on both ships - are, in fact, getting a huge kick out of the whole thing.

I think that as one goes through the Academy, your specialties emerge as a combination of what your preferences are, and what comes up during the training (things you are good at that you might not have even known you are good at), but the balance between technical expertise, scientific expertise, and military expertise is not the same across all officers. Worf, for example, clearly had a strong emphasis on combat and tactics, but also still had a high degree of technical expertise as it related to tactical systems. A single ship or station would thus have a mix of people who leaned toward one expertise or another, and some who were well versed in all of them. Enlisted personnel, I would think, would tend to have a much higher percentage of those who specialize very heavily in a specific area, and have minimal expertise in most other areas (though, of course, they could pick up other things through practical experience, the same as an officer could). So, if you were to then look at Starfleet as a whole, you find a careful balance between different specialties, disciplines, and expertise, allowing for a great deal of flexibility and adaptability.

And when you think about it, Starfleet would be able to use the strengths (and cover the weaknesses) of its officers VERY well. There literally thousands upon thousands of postings, between planetside, station, and starship postings. Got an officer that shows a great deal of expertise in hand-to-hand combat and crowd control, but showed no interest or expertise in the sciences and very little in technical areas? Security section of an open-port, commerce-oriented starbase deep in Federation territory. This would mean that not only does Starfleet function better as a whole due to this diversity, it also can afford to be very accommodating when it comes to individual officers requesting certain types of postings, at least in peacetime.
[
... You can't just learn enough to throw a few punches, then assume you will be able to handle anything that comes your way. In the context of Starfleet, there's going to be a basic, minimum level of training for any officer that graduates from the academy as far as tactics, self-defense, firearms, and other combat-oriented areas (though I could see the minimum training for academy-graduated officers being much more extensive than that for enlisted personnel who do not have a security specialty), with some going beyond that minimum (possibly quite far beyond) depending on their specialty, focus, any prior experience or training they might have had, etc. This wouldn't overwhelm the scientific and technical parts of the curriculum, but would absolutely not be dismissed as "not so important" if Starfleet is the agency called upon to defend the Federation.

Excellent post. Reprinted for worthiness.
 
You going to a military academy and getting "formal" training wouldn't stand a chance against me in a real fight.

But mine is still bigger than yours.

Whether or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not the one who spends all his time on internet which speaks volumes.

BTW, you military bootlickers have proven nothing in this thread except that when the going gets tough, you go to the last refuge of the defeated man in an argument: throw a bunch kiddie insults and hope that the rest of the circle-jerkers join in :lol: You're supporting an ugly stereotype of gun-totting trigger-happy hicks and are a real insult to genuine classy and intelligent people that can be found in militaries around the world.
 
Because being violent is easy, it's not rocket science, never has been.

And... how much research have you conducted to reach this conclusion?

Research??? It's called experience.

Uh-huh. Right. :rolleyes:

Translation: You have no idea what you're talking about.

You going to a military academy and getting "formal" training wouldn't stand a chance against me in a real fight.

But mine is still bigger than yours.

Whether or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not the one who spends all his time on internet which speaks volumes.

BTW, you military bootlickers have proven nothing in this thread except that when the going gets tough, you go to the last refuge of the defeated man in an argument: throw a bunch kiddie insults and hope that the rest of the circle-jerkers join in

Dude, you're the one whose argument has boiled down to, "I could beat anyone up," not others.
 
You going to a military academy and getting "formal" training wouldn't stand a chance against me in a real fight.

But mine is still bigger than yours.

Whether or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not the one who spends all his time on internet which speaks volumes.

BTW, you military bootlickers have proven nothing in this thread except that when the going gets tough, you go to the last refuge of the defeated man in an argument: throw a bunch kiddie insults and hope that the rest of the circle-jerkers join in :lol: You're supporting an ugly stereotype of gun-totting trigger-happy hicks and are a real insult to genuine classy and intelligent people that can be found in militaries around the world.

I honestly have no idea what to say to this. Is this a serious post? Because I honestly can't tell.
 
You going to a military academy and getting "formal" training wouldn't stand a chance against me in a real fight.

But mine is still bigger than yours.

Whether or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not the one who spends all his time on internet which speaks volumes.

BTW, you military bootlickers have proven nothing in this thread except that when the going gets tough, you go to the last refuge of the defeated man in an argument: throw a bunch kiddie insults and hope that the rest of the circle-jerkers join in :lol: You're supporting an ugly stereotype of gun-totting trigger-happy hicks and are a real insult to genuine classy and intelligent people that can be found in militaries around the world.

Clearly I was too subtle. Apologies for the over-estimation.
 
But mine is still bigger than yours.

Whether or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not the one who spends all his time on internet which speaks volumes.

BTW, you military bootlickers have proven nothing in this thread except that when the going gets tough, you go to the last refuge of the defeated man in an argument: throw a bunch kiddie insults and hope that the rest of the circle-jerkers join in :lol: You're supporting an ugly stereotype of gun-totting trigger-happy hicks and are a real insult to genuine classy and intelligent people that can be found in militaries around the world.

I honestly have no idea what to say to this. Is this a serious post? Because I honestly can't tell.

Ditto here as well -- coming from one of these supposed "military boot-lickers" of 18 years of active duty.

*Walks out of thread on his knuckles* ;)

Cheers,
-CM-
 
Whether or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not the one who spends all his time on internet which speaks volumes.

BTW, you military bootlickers have proven nothing in this thread except that when the going gets tough, you go to the last refuge of the defeated man in an argument: throw a bunch kiddie insults and hope that the rest of the circle-jerkers join in :lol: You're supporting an ugly stereotype of gun-totting trigger-happy hicks and are a real insult to genuine classy and intelligent people that can be found in militaries around the world.

I honestly have no idea what to say to this. Is this a serious post? Because I honestly can't tell.

Ditto here as well -- coming from one of these supposed "military boot-lickers" of 18 years of active duty.

*Walks out of thread on his knuckles* ;)

Cheers,
-CM-
As a fellow veteran with combat experience, I would say we are not the 'knuckle draggers' in this thread. I think I'll leave this thread before I end up offering to prove who would win that fight someone proposed.:rolleyes:
 
I honestly have no idea what to say to this. Is this a serious post? Because I honestly can't tell.

Ditto here as well -- coming from one of these supposed "military boot-lickers" of 18 years of active duty.

*Walks out of thread on his knuckles* ;)

Cheers,
-CM-
As a fellow veteran with combat experience, I would say we are not the 'knuckle draggers' in this thread. I think I'll leave this thread before I end up offering to prove who would win that fight someone proposed.:rolleyes:

I didn't serve anywhere near as long as that (unfortunately injury curtailed my career) but I agree with your sentiment - it's precisely why I refused to get into an argument with him. It really points out the difference between the internet world and the real world, doesn't it...?
 
I may be wrong, but I think that even in today's military academies purely 'military' courses comprise significantly less than 50%. The aforementioned Officer Candidate School for people that already have a civilian degree (and I think most officers actually come from OCS, and not from the Academy) - so, just those purely 'military' courses - is, according to wiki, only 12 weeks long.

Yes, OCS is just 90 days long, but that isn't the end of a prospective officer's education - they don't just dump a second lieutenant into the Army after three months. They would go from there to the Officer Basic Course, and then to a school for the branch they are to be commissioned in (i.e. Infantry, Artillery, Communications, etc.) which will vary in length depending on the career field. After that, the officer may attend further training (i.e. the Airborne or air Assault course, Ranger School, etc.).

But that's also true for officers coming from the Academy, right? <br />
I'm aware it takes a lot more than three months to really become an officer. I was just pointing out that military academies are a lot more than just 'marching and shooting', that they involve a lot of academic learning and that even if only a small part of the courses themselves are purely military (like is probably the case with Starfleet Academy), it's still a military academy.
 
. . . My knowledge and experience afforded me a reputation as being somewhat indispensible in such situations, which helped me move up the ranks a bit faster than many and landed me ultimately in my current assignment - Assistant Director of Starfleets' Temporal Investigations Division.
So YOU'RE the guy in charge of those stuffy, humorless, anal-retentive Temporal Investigations bureaucrats!

Shhh. Don't tell anyone. Would you like to see my pen? Look right here.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top