Mostly due to the actions of one person.
In this case though, I bet Ubisoft is the one who complained to CBS and as a result CBS didn't have a lot of wiggle room and had to keep their licensee happy.
Stage 9 project - gone?
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Mostly due to the actions of one person.
In this case though, I bet Ubisoft is the one who complained to CBS and as a result CBS didn't have a lot of wiggle room and had to keep their licensee happy.
This wasn't a fan fim. It was a virtual (VR) experience for PCs. It wouldn't fall under 'Fan Film' guidlines; and there ARE not guidlines for unlicensed 'PC game' type works.
CBS does have many game developers licensed to produce Star Trek themed games and virtual content (Star Trek Online - developed by Cryptic Studios for example). It doesn't surprise me in the least that CBS response was a C&D and then no further communication.
The way it normally works is:
- A game studio makes a pitch and CBS says yes/no and if yes, they negotiate terms.
- CBS puts out a spec saying: "We are looking for a Company to create <X>..."; and interested companies call, submit demos/proposals, and CBS negotiates and picks one for the project
If CBS DID grant these guys a license, or allow them to continue in any way after what they did, CBS would effectively be saying - "Hey, if you're project looks good enough, we'll come to you and negotiate..." <--- And that's NOT the message they want to send. They want to maintain control over the type of PC projects they authorize and approve of; and there is a way to approach them if you're interested, and that's how they want interested parties to do it.
IDK why they'd want to do an interview with Fan Film Factor as this wasn't a Fan Film Project; and currently there are no rules for doing an unlicensed PC related Star Trek software project; and when it comes to that; CBS only makes money there off of licensing agreements (which in addition to a fee can also include a share of the actual sales revenue).
^^^
In this situation CBS' response to the project makes perfect sense.They also didn't open up with a lawsuit out of the gate (which they could have done). They sent a C&D and the creator wisely complied.
Trying to equate this with the CBS/Paramount Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines in any way is Apples and Oranges here. The project is/was NOT a fan film in any way shape or form.
CBS does have many game developers licensed to produce Star Trek themed games and virtual content (Star Trek Online - developed by Cryptic Studios for example). It doesn't surprise me in the least that CBS response was a C&D and then no further communication.
The way it normally works is:
- A game studio makes a pitch and CBS says yes/no and if yes, they negotiate terms.
- CBS puts out a spec saying: "We are looking for a Company to create <X>..."; and interested companies call, submit demos/proposals, and CBS negotiates and picks one for the project
If CBS DID grant these guys a license, or allow them to continue in any way after what they did, CBS would effectively be saying - "Hey, if you're project looks good enough, we'll come to you and negotiate..." <--- And that's NOT the message they want to send. They want to maintain control over the type of PC projects they authorize and approve of; and there is a way to approach them if you're interested, and that's how they want interested parties to do it.
IDK why they'd want to do an interview with Fan Film Factor as this wasn't a Fan Film Project; and currently there are no rules for doing an unlicensed PC related Star Trek software project; and when it comes to that; CBS only makes money there off of licensing agreements (which in addition to a fee can also include a share of the actual sales revenue).
^^^
In this situation CBS' response to the project makes perfect sense.They also didn't open up with a lawsuit out of the gate (which they could have done). They sent a C&D and the creator wisely complied.
Trying to equate this with the CBS/Paramount Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines in any way is Apples and Oranges here. The project is/was NOT a fan film in any way shape or form.
Which, again, is well within CBS' and Ubisoft's rights. They are honoring their contracts, after all.
Fan Film Forum was originally created by the PR representative of Axanar Productions, and was created around the time that the Axanar lawsuit was at its zenith, and was part of a shadow campaign designed to exert public pressure on CBS and whip up support in the fan community. The current administrator is Jonathan Lane, a noted and public support of Alec Peters, the notorious man behind a great deal of turmoil in the fan community. Jonathan Lane uses his ostensibly objective and neutral forum to quietly promote Alec Peter's current interests, attack critics, and serve as a mouthpiece for whatever is left of Axanar.
If members of the Stage 9 team were to grant an interview with Fan Film Forum, there is a more than 50% chance Jonathan would use that interview to exacerbate your issues with CBS for his own purposes, try to get you to reveal confidential information, and do whatever he could to "bring you into the fold" in his anti-CBS crusade, a crusade that benefits one person - Alec Peters.
I would suggest that you stay far, far away, or provide information to a more reputable outlet like Trekzone.org.
This is all true.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. @Rekkert, @DanGovier, I would also strongly advise against associating with Alec Peters and his followers at Fan Film Factor.
I'm sorry to see this happening to such an interesting project. But I guess all of you were realists enough to be aware of the possibility of something like this eventually happening.
Indeed, while obviously saddened and angry at what happened, we fully understand CBS's right to protect their IP. We have no intention of being compared with or help out Axanar in any shape or form, as unlike them we did this out of passion, not monetary gain.
For us the question of 'where do we go from here?' is still open, but we know full well that fighting this is not a realistic possibility nor something we want to do.
For us the question of 'where do we go from here?' is still open, but we know full well that fighting this is not a realistic possibility nor something we want to do.
Seconded. The absolute last thing we would want to do is create problems for other similar projects, and we're not looking to demonise CBS in any way. As Rekkert says, we completely understand that CBS needs to protect its property and we wouldn't expect anything less. I am of course disappointed at their apparent unwillingness to even discuss the matter with us to reach some form of compromise, but perhaps it's just early days and a dialogue can yet be achieved. Ultimately Stage 9 was nothing more than a group of passionate fans giving their time freely to produce a labour of love.
I don't think there are any roads left for you to take. I mean, you developers could still continue the work in private, just for yourselfes (maybe with the hope that, in a couple of years, the official virtual product will be forgotten and nobody will see you as competition anymore (especially if you change the project and ship name, and use different characters/fonts)). But this is a virtual thing, not something you build in a garage and if any of you would leak anything, you would all be ruined. Your project is fantastic, but as much as I'd love to see it be continued, it's just not worth the risk.
Maybe you could pull an Orville and build/design your own "almost trek, but not entirely"-ship?
This seems pretty reasonable; CBS is objecting to the publicizing - and publishing. Simply creating something meant to be private and not sharing is hardly objectionable. I'd certainly suggest replacing the NPC's with more generic characters, and changing the name of the ship as well, in the case of any future potential release.
I tried the VR version on my phone, and while it was fun it was kinda difficult to use.
This is crazy idea, but The Star Trek Set Tour in New York has announced they want to build the Next Generation sets, and they have a CBS license. Perhaps you could somehow partner with them and make this a "virtual extension" of their officially licensed tour. The sticking point here is they might need to renegotiate the terms of their license to include a virtual component, so it could be more complicated legally than a handshake.
Yeah, the thing is... I'm sure the developers of Stage9 are coming from all over the map. They have to send their data via Internet. And, call me paranoid, but there are a lot of idiots in our fandom. I just fear, that, somewhere down the road, someone might hack them, steeling whatever they have programmed in private, and the hacker goes ahead and shares it online for all, thinking himself to be a good guy or whatever, while dooming the developers.
As as Kid I wanted nothing more than to be on the Enterprise, to walk the corridors of this mighty ship, exploring every possible room. That kid is still alive and kicking. It still want's to be on the Enterprises, and it knows, it will never get closer to his dream than this. But the same kid doesn't want you to be at risk. It's simply not worth it.
So... better not stirr the tiger. My inner kid would like to thank you for everything you have done. But this far, no further. The rest will be done by his imagination
I think that this certainly has at least something to do with James Cawley's OSST in up state New York, given that he is planning to expand his offering... and CBS will always protect their licensees over fans.
Hi @Rekkert, @DanGovier, I'm going to reach out to you in private.
Hi @Rekkert, @DanGovier, I'm going to reach out to you in private.
Thanks for taking this one for me, @Jedi_Master - you explained it far more succinctly than I could've.
Just maybe it was becuase of these things, who knows () shrugs () , long and short of it is, you play with someone else's IP you run the risk of getting shut down and they do not have to discuss anything as to why they did so.
https://treksphere.com/fan-producti...and-desist-to-the-enterprise-d-vr-experience/
https://treksphere.com/fan-producti...and-desist-to-the-enterprise-d-vr-experience/
Well if fan art is still allowed, perhaps you guys could release renders, or orthos of some of the completed rooms that could be used as reference materials for others in the future? I know at one point Redgeneral was wanting to create a blueprint book for all of the created sets for TNG and VOY, so that people could use it as a guide in case they wanted to take on building some of the sets, modeling them etc.
Heck even those cool 360 renders that were once on youtube were pretty cool, and since that is on youtube it would fall under fan film guides.
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