Stage 9 gets cease and desist order from CBS

[StarTrekRecuts]

Not sure if anyone knew about this project but it's no longer happening because of CBS

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https://stevivor.com/news/stage-9-star-trek-tng-sim-gets-cease-desist-order-cbs/

What's people's thoughts about this?

 

[TroiFan4ever]

You beat me. I was just about to make a thread about this. Anyway, yeah, like everyone else, I'm absolutely gutted by the CBS shut down. This was an amazing project that i can't for the life of me see how this was infringing on CBS' intellectual properties, other that it being Trek related.
To be honest though, i can't honestly say i didn't see this coming. I did fear it though. But unfortunately our worst fears came true. There was much i wanted to do, see, and explore in v11 and more. I really was looking forward to having that whole runabout with every room! I wish that at least the c&d shut down would've happened AFTER v11 being released rather than before. But, hey, i guess there's always making my own 3d Enterprise-D interiors which is something i've been wanting to do anyway.

Effective 9/26/2018 I've lost any respect and support i've had for CBS. I'm no longer watching Young and the Restless and Bold and the Beautiful. I was planning on getting a CBS All-Access subscription so i can watch Discovery but now they can forget the hell out of it. CBS won't see a shinning red penny of my money because of this; that all has been shot to hell for shutting down the Stage 9 project, not just for us who enjoyed playing it but for the devs who devoted their hard work to this amazing project. Two years of work and now for nothing. DAMN YOU, CBS! YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO THE STAR TREK FRANCHISE! YOU ALL CAN EAT SHIT!

Rant over. Forgive me if anything was said here that violates any rules.

 

[urbandefault]

i can't for the life of me see how this was infringing on CBS' intellectual properties, other that it being Trek related.

Hmmm.

Star Trek is an intellectual property of CBS. CBS decided that Stage 9 was infringing on its intellectual property, and sent a C&D.

Nope, I don't get it either.

 

[TroiFan4ever]

Hmmm.

Star Trek is an intellectual property of CBS. CBS decided that Stage 9 was infringing on its intellectual property, and sent a C&D.

Nope, I don't get it either.

But they weren't making any money off the project. That's the thing. I'd understand if they were in it for a profit but it was strictly fan art. That's just like a television network or production studio coming down on authors writing fanfiction about their shows and movies, which i wouldn't be surprised if CBS started doing with Trek fanfiction.

So hopefully this clears up your "confusion" for you

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Hmmm.

Star Trek is an intellectual property of CBS. CBS decided that Stage 9 was infringing on its intellectual property, and sent a C&D.

Nope, I don't get it either.

They weren't infringing on anything. No money was being made. None. They offered to communicate to CBS. They offered to make any changes CBS wanted, including changing the title, changing the ship, and removing anything CBS wanted them to. They removed VR months ago (which they thought was the problem since it conflicted with Bridge Crew). CBS did not enter into a dialogue with them, after they reached out twice following the C&D.

These were just guys doing their own thing. This is NOT an Axanar situation. These were devs doing a dream project on their own free time, making no money. They mentioned that one day they wanted to approach CBS and become officially licensed, but after the project was a real, viable thing. They were careful. Disclaimers were everywhere. And still this happens.

So yeah, screw CBS. Screw Discovery and All Access. Stage 9 did not need to be killed, but because it was, I will never pay for CBS Star Trek again..
​

 

[TroiFan4ever]

snip

You're exactly right! I could not have said that better myself, and that's part of what infuriates me further! It's not like they were trying to be shady or under-the-table about the whole thing. They were way more than willing to be open and communicate with CBS and how do they respond? Pathetic on so many levels, but apparently CBS has no respect for Trek fans so and them shutting Stage 9 down shows it.

I hope in time CBS realizes what a huge mistake they made, see the errors of their ways, and reverse the cease-and-desist order on the Stage 9 project. I consider myself an optimist and i see that as highly unlikely.

I still do have Netflix which I'm sure CBS is affiliated with but 1.) I'm not the billpayer of the joint Netflix subscription and 2.) I'm still trying to finish the latest season of Orange is the New Black. Other than that, I want absolutely nothing to do with CBS.

 

[StarTrekRecuts]

This makes me wonder how the voyager project is going that other guy was working on, i think he has taken down all his videos down just to be safe.

 

[urbandefault]

Infringement doesn't have anything to do with making money. It's about using an IP without permission.

 

[Relayer1]

Infringement doesn't have anything to do with making money. It's about using an IP without permission.

This is it exactly.

It's like asking to borrow someone's coffee at work if you replace it afterwards - they can just say sorry but no.

Actually, it's more like being caught using their coffee and complaining that they didn't seem to mind in the past.

You shouldn't be doing it - if they've turned a blind eye previously, you've done well and they've been generous.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

So I guess then they will go after all fanfiction ever written, since that is using the IP without permission as well. Or all Etsy items. Or whatever else.

Stage 9 did not need, or deserve, to be killed. Disclaimers were all over that project. They were good people who tried to do something in good faith as fans, and they got screwed. So screw CBS six ways to Sunday.

 

[BillJ]

So I guess then they will go after all fanfiction ever written, since that is using the IP without permission as well. Or all Etsy items. Or whatever else.

Nope. They can go after whoever they want, but are not required to go after everyone.

Easy come, easy go.

 

[Jono]

I hope in time CBS realizes what a huge mistake they made, see the errors of their ways, and reverse the cease-and-desist order on the Stage 9 project. I consider myself an optimist and i see that as highly unlikely.

The thing is it isn't a huge mistake for CBS. This will only impact a tiny niche of the fan base. While a slightly larger group might not think this is a good look in a few weeks the memory will fade. Nor would it likely do anything to change their consumption of CBS products. For the vast majority of fans this is a non-event.

I'm not saying this because I'm against fan works. My Trek gaming fix has been almost entirely supplied by Trek fan mods for other games in the last 10 years or longer. It's just the realities of this space.

 

[BillJ]

And, for all we know, it may be that CBS sent the cease-and-desist, but one of their license holders (like possibly Cryptic or whoever runs Star Trek Online) that had an issue with what Stage 9 was doing.

 

[Zod]

These guys worked hard on this for years! While I understand IP I don't have to agree with it and I don't. If these guys said they would make any changes to become compliant and they still would not work with them that's just downright nasty. I know why they did- Attorney's don't like floors or ceilings. If they worked out a deal they have created a floor which they believe may haunt them down the line. So they instead say nothing and just say cease and desist. Its easier that way and the client can't come back later on and get angry at their representation.

I won't give CBS a dime of my money. Means little overall but no thanks.

 

[Kemaiku]

Don't steal other peoples shit. How hard a lesson is this to learn that Trek fans more than anyone need to keep learning it the hard way?

 

[Zod]

Don't steal other peoples shit. How hard a lesson is this to learn that Trek fans more than anyone need to keep learning it the hard way?

That's a little harsh. You really think of the guys behind this project as thieves? Its so interesting to hear from non attorneys and non IP attorney's especially defending in absolute terms the laws regarding IP without really knowing the law. I hate to break it to you but CBS is not always right. Something might be within their rights but it doesn't always make it right as in the right thing to do. Sometimes they just do whats easy.

 

[Kemaiku]

That's a little harsh.

Nope. Paramount/CBS have been exceptionally lenient so far, some of these groups are exploiting that and need reminding who owns what.

 

[Zod]

Nope. Paramount/CBS have been exceptionally lenient so far, some of these groups are exploiting that and need reminding who owns what.

Thats fine you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I disagree and will vote with my wallet as they say. Star Wars fan stuff has much improved these days imo so I now spend on that. CBS can go to hell.

 

[Noname Given]

These guys worked hard on this for years! While I understand IP I don't have to agree with it and I don't. If these guys said they would make any changes to become compliant and they still would not work with them that's just downright nasty. I know why they did- Attorney's don't like floors or ceilings. If they worked out a deal they have created a floor which they believe may haunt them down the line. So they instead say nothing and just say cease and desist. Its easier that way and the client can't come back later on and get angry at their representation.

I won't give CBS a dime of my money. Means little overall but no thanks.

The ONLY way to become 'compliant' here is to PAY a licensing fee (assuming CBS would grant them one) - this wasn't a Fan Film. CBS has granted licenses to a couple of PC developers for games and the like (Cryptic Studios and Star Trek Online for example).

I don't think the message CBS wants to send is: "Hey, afraid to pitch/ask for a license - do your own thing and if it's good enough we'll come and negotiate with you..."
^^^
And that's exactly what CBS would be doing here if they started any talks with these guys. It's not a product (and that's what these guys have indeed made) CBS wants to allow at this time. Maybe it would have been different if these guys approached CBS at an earlier stage; but they didn't; so CBS did what it felt was prudent to protect theirs (and their official licencees) interests.

Sorry, but CBS ISN'T at fault here.

 

[Kemaiku]

Thats fine you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I disagree and will vote with my wallet as they say. Star Wars fan stuff has much improved these days imo so I now spend on that. CBS can go to hell.

IP Law is not "my opinion" as I'd very soon find out as these people have if I infringed on copyrights.