ST:TMP-Why DID they think it was what fans waited for?

[USS Mariner]

I think the probe was lost, and it could only talk whale, and once the whales returned to the 23rd Century, the whales told the probe where to go.

GEORGE: One honk was enough, big fella. We could hear you out past Pluto, dumb shit.

GRACIE: Aaaaany way, you take a right after the Planet of the Space Vikings, then drive straight past the two Elf planets, then hang left at the planet with Rock-melting Pizzas...

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I love it. Probably my favorite one next to 2 and 3.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I suppose I fall into the category of those who are passionate about TMP. To me, it /was/ Star Trek: Phase II. It was more of a sequel to the original series than TNG was in a lot of ways, and it was the most progressive, I feel, of all the Trek films. I liked the hard SF approach. I also liked how the characters were challenged in subtle ways; sure, the characters went through hell in some of the other films, but it was usually big and bombastic, or "out there": "You Klingon bastards killed my son!" or "Spock's ghost, I am possessed by it, ooga booga".

Also, it was the most genuine to some Star Trek ideals I feel, in that the Big Threat is not phasered or photon torpedoed to save the day, but communicated with, understood, and allowed to depart in peace - even after doing some damage and hurting some people. Spock's journey in the film is, IMO, the best use of the character outside of some of the deeper Trek novels. If anything, the story is the most critical turning point in Spock's entire life: it's the place where he gains true wisdom in addition to intelligence, and stops fighting against who and what he is. It was also a good use of Kirk. I felt it displayed Kirk's genuine intelligence and insight, rather than focus on solely on his passion and inventive but reckless talent for destabilizing situations in order to make things happen his way.

There's a few flaws and outright goofy things, and some of the visual design doesn't come together. Plus: what the hell was the point of the transporter accident scene as a way to get rid of the science officer and leave a void for Spock to fill? It seemed more like somebody just dying to play with the oft-imagined but never shown fatal teleportation accident.

But it remains one of the few films I can watch and feel I'm actually watching science fiction, and not cowboys in spaceships with laser guns. (I say this as someone who likes cowboys in spaceships with laser guns in measured doses.)

Well said. It does indeed have a "hard sci-fi" feel to it.

 

[Timewalker]

So I'm just wondering why GR and crew thought that after 10 years of waiting fans would want to see.

A SPOCK trying to be totally emotionless and acting like his friends and crew members meant nothing to him.

KIRK as an Admiral when clearly he belonged as a captain.

A nebulous (no pun intended) "villian" who wasn't really even a villian in the truest since.

Sticking Rand in there and not really identifying her.

Uhura could pull off her fan dance in V but couldn't carry a mini skirt in TMP.

Personally, I agree that it would have been pretty boring to think that in the intervening years, there were NO changes among the crew. I would have rather seen more changes, such as all of Kirk's crew being spread throughout the Federation, and Kirk having to get them back.

The original plan was to have everybody scattered and Kirk would have to round them up because ONLY those people could deal with The Menace. But that would have taken half the movie. They made a decent compromise.

But thanks to Decker and Ilia, Spock said it would have to deal with human emotions. Wouldn't the evolved V'Ger want to get in contact with Enterprise or Starfleet?

It was very sensible of V'Ger to leave and never look back.

I think the probe was lost, and it could only talk whale, and once the whales returned to the 23rd Century, the whales told the probe where to go.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

You only had black & white TV until 1975? That's terrible.

Yep. We saw the first run of shows like "Batman", "Star Trek", "Star Trek Animated", "H.R. Pufnstuf" and "Disney's Wonderful World of Color" in glorious black and white.

But, IIRC, South Africa didn't have TV at all until about the same time.

I remember vividly too this day visiting my great great grandparents way back in 1975 on a Saturday evening and being absolutely blown away be seeing my very first color TV, and what was on it, Dr Who The Sontaran Experiment.....that first exposure to a color TV has been ingrained into my mind with vivid recollection.......it was about two years later that my parents got their first color TV, big hulking monster of a TV.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

My sister, who reads a lot but has seen little of any TREK, finally saw TMP this year and thought it felt like an adaptation of an Arthur Clarke novel.

As a big fan of ACC's work, I can appreciate that comparison. Of all the Trek films, TMP is the only one that can really call itself a science-fiction movie, the closest to various ideas espoused in literary sci-fi.

I often wondered what a Star Trek novel by Clarke would've been like, had he ever chosen to write one. It is a shame that this brilliant mind is no longer with us.

Damn! I didn't know he had died. That really sucks!

 

[DrTaylor]

Well, obviously its not true that "no one" likes or wants that since there are fans that like this film, myself included. In fact, having Kirk promoted to Admiral when he wants to be a ship's captain & being troubled and disconnected is one of the things they repeated in TWOK.

That particular theme with Kirk continued through Generations - one of the best things about both TMP and Gen, I think.

For example, in the scene where Kirk was going to take command of the Enterprise, but told Spock to stay in command, Spock replied : "You proceed from a false assumption. I am a Vulcan. I have no ego to bruise."

That line by Spock is exactly what the old Spock would say. He should have smiled and said something like "Jim, remember, I'm still half-Vulcan, I can set my ego aside if I choose."

I always saw Spock's struggles as internal, so to me it makes perfect sense that the face he presents to Kirk is not quite what's going inside.

Listen to Spock's tone - he's quite a bit warmer-sounding than in TOS.

^^^Agreed. You always ruin the first pancake.

Good point. But if you find yourself ruining the fifth, ninth, and tenth pancakes, you just might be a Trekkie

We also ruined the seventh.

As someone who at least saw the third season first run, and then rabidly caught the rest in syndication as I grew up; what dissapointed ME more than anything else was the ST:TMP was not 'new' per se; is was an expanded re-make/re-imagining of the TOS second season episode The Changeling - and that really hampered my enjoyment of it at he time (I was 16 in 1979 when it premired; and I still saw it 3 times in theatres over the holidays).

Lots of eps have the same problem, as do two of the least popular movies - TFF is also a ripoff of an animated episode, complete with Satan in the center of the galaxy.

I agree that Spock joining with V'Ger makes sense but what would that leave Kirk with?

Xon.

And then Nimoy couldn't be in the new movie! I think it worked out for the best.