ST:TMP - How Much of the Memory Wall Sequence Was Really Filmed?

[trevanian]

Yeah, but as near as I can tell, Eisner was only interested in the 'threat to earth' part. They could have had ANYthing (except Jesus Christ) coming to eat Earth and I think he'd've grabbed at it.

Maybe somebody should've repitched John Black's Blackhole story and set it in-system.

 

[QuasarVM]

^ Gene Roddenberry wanted to use his The God Thing screenplay to reincarnate Star Trek for the 1970s. It was Paramount's Michael Eisner who demanded that In Thy Image be retooled from the Phase II television pilot into a feature film after the success of CE3K.

TGT

I would have liked to have seen The God Thing....hell, I would like to have been able to have read the promised book! Roddenberry must not have been very far along with the book before he passed away.

The problems with TMP started right there...with Eisner dictating the usage of that "hand me down" plot from Genesis II.

From what I know of "Planet of the Titans", that would have made a good film in my opinion. I'm not sure why they abandoned that one. I think Phil Kaufman would have made a better film than Robert Wise did -- although I never liked the Ralph McQuarrie designed Enterprise (the Star Destroyer with a saucer attached to it).

Then there was that plot with the Mayans...the one that Harlan Ellison liked so much...LOL!!!

Yeah...that would've made a GREAT film! LOL!!!!

The God Thing seems to be under the same media blackout as the coverage of RAA's work on the visual effects for ST:TMP...weird...

If the book came out today, would it say Written by Gene Roddenberry, Walter Koenig, Michael Jan Friedman and David Alexander based on the screenplay by Gene Roddenberry?

Those are some pretty exhausting writing credits! LOL!

Maybe Koenig re-wrote it and changed the name to "Buck Alice and the Actor Robot"? LOL!!! Ok, it's late...I'm getting punchy...lol.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

^ I was utterly mesmerized (in a good way ) by ST:TMP as an eight year old, and my one wish was that it had been finished by Robert Wise and the original production team (possibly as a "Special Edition" for Xmas, 1980 release). On the other hand, if Doug Trumbull had taken over miniature photography and matte paintings while leaving the animation effects to RA&A in August, 1978 as he suggested we may have been able to get a fully completed film by December, 1979.

TGT

 

[trevanian]

Hey, I liked the Ellison pitch!

The Ken Adam designs for TITANS look better to me than the Mcquarrie ones, even though the latter are more slickly packaged. Funny thing is, if you look at Adam's previous project, SPY WHO LOVED ME, it has a submersible underwater 'city' that has pontoons that look like warp nacelles ... moreso than his TITANS Enterprise.

But if you look at the station interior in MOONRAKER, you get an idea on a smaller scale of what he might have done with the ENT ints on TITANS.

 

[QuasarVM]

^ I was utterly mesmerized (in a good way ) by ST:TMP as an eight year old, and my one wish was that it had been finished by Robert Wise and the original production team (possibly as a "Special Edition" for Xmas, 1980 release). On the other hand, if Doug Trumbull had taken over miniature photography and matte paintings while leaving the animation effects to RA&A in August, 1978 as he suggested we may have been able to get a fully completed film by December, 1979.

TGT

Don't get me wrong, I like ST:TMP (Ironically, for me, it's the one that feels the most like TOS -- because they are at least encountering a "Strange, New Life Form") -- but the Director's Cut that Robert Wise and Daren Dochterman worked on. It's just that of the different ideas they had for the film, "Robot's Return" (the original Questor title) would not have been my first pick.

 

[QuasarVM]

Hey, I liked the Ellison pitch!

The Ken Adam designs for TITANS look better to me than the Mcquarrie ones, even though the latter are more slickly packaged. Funny thing is, if you look at Adam's previous project, SPY WHO LOVED ME, it has a submersible underwater 'city' that has pontoons that look like warp nacelles ... moreso than his TITANS Enterprise.

But if you look at the station interior in MOONRAKER, you get an idea on a smaller scale of what he might have done with the ENT ints on TITANS.

Yeah, I agree -- the Ken Adams stuff is better. I don't remember much about Spy Who Loved Me...but I do remember Moonraker. Ken Adams' design work is usually pretty good, but, with the exception of the two Donner Superman films -- and Gerry Anderson's UFO -- I never cared for the miniature work of Derek Meddings...ugh.

He's like my least favorite FX guy next to the infamous Bran Ferren (Star Trek V)...horrible!

Oh and yeah...the Ellison pitch was good. It was some Paramount exec who wanted the Mayans in it...and subsequently sent Ellison into a fit of rage...lol.

 

[trevanian]

Part of the deal with Meddings is that you don't realize his best work is an effects shot. The dock explosion in FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, the copter flying into a foreground miniature building at the beginning of same, the poppy field explosion in LIVE&LET DIE ... incredibly photorealistic work.

the rest ... well, given the time restraints (severe on Bond post schedules then, worse now), I still think a lot is miraculous looking. the Shuttle takeoffs looked better than the real thing to me (if they'd just cut two frames earlier, before the spark fell down!)

TITANS was going to use Meddings for miniature work, but Jordan Belson (the 'demon in the air' from RIGHT STUFF) for opticals. So I think Meddings might have done some of his invisible in-camera stuff for down on the planet stuff, and probably some paintings, while Belson would have gotten the black hole and other more exotic bits.

 

[QuasarVM]

Part of the deal with Meddings is that you don't realize his best work is an effects shot. The dock explosion in FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, the copter flying into a foreground miniature building at the beginning of same, the poppy field explosion in LIVE&LET DIE ... incredibly photorealistic work.

the rest ... well, given the time restraints (severe on Bond post schedules then, worse now), I still think a lot is miraculous looking. the Shuttle takeoffs looked better than the real thing to me (if they'd just cut two frames earlier, before the spark fell down!)

I'll admit his pyrotechnics look great! Many people love his work...I can respect that...I've just never been sold by it. Considering when Titans would have been made, I suppose he would have been considered one of the best pre-Star Wars. But, even so -- the logical choice would have been Trumbull since he had done 2001/Silent Running...or L.B. Abbott...

Then again, I like the suitmation work of the Toho monster flicks of Japan -- so what do I know? LOL!

Anyway, do Adam and Meddings have some kind of contract where if one works on a film, so does the other? I mean, these two guys seem to keep working on the same projects.

Whoops...looks like Meddings passed away in 1995. May he R.I.P.!

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Maybe somebody should've repitched John Black's Blackhole story and set it in-system.

I was only yesterday rereading my copy of Dr. Vladimir Beletsky's Essays on the Motion of Celestial Bodies, and one chapter discusses the dynamical consequences of a spiral galaxy such as the Milky Way being disrupted by the gravitational potential of a multi-billion solar mass "dead quasar" moving on a hyperbolic encounter trajectory perpendicular to the galactic plane in one example and a hyperbolic co-planar encounter in the other. The gravitational perturbations - aside from tearing away a substantial number of stars to form a second, smaller galaxy centered on the rogue object - would cause the orbits of just about every planet, asteroid and comet around its stellar primary within the galactic remnants to be modified with potentially horrendous consequences to life-bearing worlds such as Earth. Needless to say, Starfleet dispatching the NCC-1701 Refit on a desperate extragalactic mission (after being equipped with an Extended Mission Module?) to intercept the quasar could have made for one bitchin' hard sci-fi film, although for the life of me I cannot image how Kirk and the gang could have done anything beyond take notes on the destruction from a safe distance while moaning "Oh, the Humanoidity!".

TGT

 

[ST-One]

...I think Phil Kaufman would have made a better film than Robert Wise did -- although I never liked the Ralph McQuarrie designed Enterprise (the Star Destroyer with a saucer attached to it)...

I too never liked that design.
But for some reason it seems to work as a model (in this case a CG-model).

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/47033-enterprise-phase-ii-prototype-4.html

 

[Maurice]

...I think Phil Kaufman would have made a better film than Robert Wise did -- although I never liked the Ralph McQuarrie designed Enterprise (the Star Destroyer with a saucer attached to it)...

I too never liked that design.
But for some reason it seems to work as a model (in this case a CG-model).

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/47033-enterprise-phase-ii-prototype-4.html

Wow, that's kinda off topic. Did you have to post all those huge pics?

 

[Ottens]

Well I think they're pretty great! Those are the first views of the McQuarrie Enterprise I actually like.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The V'Ger plot was taken from an old story outline for an episode of Questor!

"Robot's Return", a proposed script for Roddenberry's "Genesis II", not "The Questor Tapes".

 

[QuasarVM]

The V'Ger plot was taken from an old story outline for an episode of Questor!

"Robot's Return", a proposed script for Roddenberry's "Genesis II", not "The Questor Tapes".

DOH!!! You're right.

 

[QuasarVM]

...I think Phil Kaufman would have made a better film than Robert Wise did -- although I never liked the Ralph McQuarrie designed Enterprise (the Star Destroyer with a saucer attached to it)...

I too never liked that design.
But for some reason it seems to work as a model (in this case a CG-model).

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/47033-enterprise-phase-ii-prototype-4.html

WOW!!! Yeah! I like this version!!

I'd like to see it mapped...

Suh-weet!!!

 

[Christopher]

That's a good interpretation of the Adams/McQuarrie design, mainly because there's so little McQuarrie in it. It gets away from that ugly juxtaposition of the triangular "Star Destroyer" shape with a teeny-tiny saucer stuck on and follows more of a established Starfleet aesthetic and design philosophy. There's clearly some Probert influence in the design of the "fantail" portion. It actually looks like it could be a Starfleet vessel.

 

[trevanian]

Geez, it is like polishing a turd until it looks not just edible, but delicious to smell as well! That is one great looking computer model. Only way I'd tweak it would be to graft on those pontoons from Adam's ATLANTIS in SPY WHO LOVE ME as warp engines.

 

[trevanian]

Maybe somebody should've repitched John Black's Blackhole story and set it in-system.

I was only yesterday rereading my copy of Dr. Vladimir Beletsky's Essays on the Motion of Celestial Bodies, and one chapter discusses the dynamical consequences of a spiral galaxy such as the Milky Way being disrupted by the gravitational potential of a multi-billion solar mass "dead quasar" moving on a hyperbolic encounter trajectory perpendicular to the galactic plane in one example and a hyperbolic co-planar encounter in the other. The gravitational perturbations - aside from tearing away a substantial number of stars to form a second, smaller galaxy centered on the rogue object - would cause the orbits of just about every planet, asteroid and comet around its stellar primary within the galactic remnants to be modified with potentially horrendous consequences to life-bearing worlds such as Earth. Needless to say, Starfleet dispatching the NCC-1701 Refit on a desperate extragalactic mission (after being equipped with an Extended Mission Module?) to intercept the quasar could have made for one bitchin' hard sci-fi film, although for the life of me I cannot image how Kirk and the gang could have done anything beyond take notes on the destruction from a safe distance while moaning "Oh, the Humanoidity!".

TGT

Sounds like a job for a creative physicist. Ever read THE WOUNDED SKY?

 

[Christopher]

I was only yesterday rereading my copy of Dr. Vladimir Beletsky's Essays on the Motion of Celestial Bodies, and one chapter discusses the dynamical consequences of a spiral galaxy such as the Milky Way being disrupted by the gravitational potential of a multi-billion solar mass "dead quasar" moving on a hyperbolic encounter trajectory perpendicular to the galactic plane in one example and a hyperbolic co-planar encounter in the other. The gravitational perturbations - aside from tearing away a substantial number of stars to form a second, smaller galaxy centered on the rogue object - would cause the orbits of just about every planet, asteroid and comet around its stellar primary within the galactic remnants to be modified with potentially horrendous consequences to life-bearing worlds such as Earth. Needless to say, Starfleet dispatching the NCC-1701 Refit on a desperate extragalactic mission (after being equipped with an Extended Mission Module?) to intercept the quasar could have made for one bitchin' hard sci-fi film, although for the life of me I cannot image how Kirk and the gang could have done anything beyond take notes on the destruction from a safe distance while moaning "Oh, the Humanoidity!".

Even if it were possible for mere humanoid technology to affect something with the mass of billions of suns, that would make for an awfully long movie, since that "destruction" would take hundreds of millions of years to unfold.

 

[QuasarVM]

Looking further at the model, the only thing I would do is extend the back of the connecting dorsal and give it an "Enterprise D Style" aft torpedo launcher...

This thing does look sort like a forerunner to the the "D"...