Spoilers ST Discovery - Starships and Technology Season Four Discussion

[F. King Daniel]

I mentioned this in the review thread, but S04E01 makes a HUGE retcon to the magical future technology. The badges are now just remotes for the ship's transporter and depend on that to function. Before, they were self-contained units like at the end of Nemesis.

So how were Book and Michael beaming all over that planet at the start of season 3? It doesn't make any sense now.

 

[Timo]

We can plead "remotes to the Nautilus" on that one, even though it really sucks.

And as discussed in another thread, all that transporting action in the S3 opener takes place within a fairly small area. Burnham falls on Hima and soon runs into Book, who wouldn't have strayed too far from his ship to idly investigate meteoric women, even ones who scratch his paint. They then choose to walk to the Mercantile, over terrain that makes for slow progress. And then get to trouble, and start beaming away, and end up at Book's ship. So the total distance achieved by the beaming action is minimal, and even if the total distance covered while trying to shed pursuit might in theory have been much longer, we don't need to assume it was.

So the magnificent things might really be but dinky beaming collars connected to shipboard resources by a fairly short leash.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I mentioned this in the review thread, but S04E01 makes a HUGE retcon to the magical future technology. The badges are now just remotes for the ship's transporter and depend on that to function. Before, they were self-contained units like at the end of Nemesis.

So how were Book and Michael beaming all over that planet at the start of season 3? It doesn't make any sense now.

Actually, I like this more. It makes WAY more logical sense then having an entire Transporter built into the ComBadge.

Having it being a Transponder that is connected to the ships local Transporter makes infinitely more sense in a technological and capability wise.

The old Site-to-Site Transporter that Tom Paris used to help Harry escape was a glorified remote control in the shape of a 90's Dumb Phone.

And given that Earth and objects in Earth's orbit are probably littered with as many Transporters as there are cars on the world today, figuring out which Transporter to shut down will take time.

The Emergency Transporter ArmBand was just a similar Site-to-Site Transporter with the remote control mounted to the ArmBand that connected to your local StarShip/RunAbout's Transporter.

The ETU (Emergency Transporter Unit) was a one-way transponder the size of a cuff-link that tapped into any available Transporter System on the ship (Let's say the Shuttle's on the Enterprise E since they probably weren't damaged). That would explain why JLP survived.

 

[Timo]

...Or then it was simply the TNG equivalent of Kirk's subcutaneous transponder, a beacon to allow friendly transporters to get a lock combined with an override function so that one wouldn't need to hail the operator first. Having a beacon would help those aboard a cloaked enemy vessel or in a murky nebula, especially if the friendly transporter had damaged scanners.

The problem with this is Data's insistence that the unit only has "power" to save one person. A beacon should allow for the saving of dozens clustering around it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

...Or then it was simply the TNG equivalent of Kirk's subcutaneous transponder, a beacon to allow friendly transporters to get a lock combined with an override function so that one wouldn't need to hail the operator first. Having a beacon would help those aboard a cloaked enemy vessel or in a murky nebula, especially if the friendly transporter had damaged scanners.

The problem with this is Data's insistence that the unit only has "power" to save one person. A beacon should allow for the saving of dozens clustering around it.

Timo Saloniemi

Isn't that dependent on how the device was designed?
The ETU looked like the size of a large cuff-link that you placed on the object that you wanted to beam out.

It wasn't designed for multiple targets nearby.

Maybe they should upgrade that feature in Version 2 or have more ETU's handy. Hand them out like M&M's.

 

[fireproof78]

Hand them out like M&M's.

I swallow them weekly to ensure that I can be rescued.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I swallow them weekly to ensure that I can be rescued.

I'm not sure that would be healthy for you.

You don't want a chunk of metal like that going through your intestines, because the Hydro Chloric stomach acid will make it jagged and un-even, and you don't want a jagged metal ETU coming out your pooper , ripping up your intestines.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not sure that would be healthy for you.

You don't want a chunk of metal like that going through your intestines, because the Hydro Chloric stomach acid will make it jagged and un-even, and you don't want a jagged metal ETU coming out your pooper , ripping up your intestines.

They have materials that can withstand HCL acid now. I am unconcerned.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

true. A simple dialogue snip like "maybe the station was taken out by an EMP / flare / anomaly stronger than it was designed to normally withstand" would have helped.

I'm iffy on the lack of p-matter on the station too. I mean, random rogues had the stuff at the top of last year. Was the station somehow out of it? Why could they not replicate more, or can they even do it in the first place?

Mark

I would love more information on programmable matter that is probably not forthcoming. Commander Nalas says the q-nodes are destroyed beyond repair or "squiddled". Since I also know nothing about q-nodes maybe one makes the other? Potentially if the Q-Nodes weren't damaged, you could get new P-matter out of them? Equally likely, the commander could just be listing unrelated disasters: "You'll need to bring your own coffee because our percolator is engulfed in flames" Vs "Out of coffee. Fingers tired. Would you please tap the holographic buttons on our flaming percolator?"

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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[Mark_Nguyen]

Mini notes:

- The Captain's ready room has been refitted - it's more of a triangle shape now, more cozy. Presumably it's at the same place as it used to be, but I haven't checked closely to see if the exterior model has been revamped too. I guess I liked it as it was before, but it's true that it had a LOT of space that wasn't used much, especially last year.

- And it has a built-in holodeck! Is it simply a visual thing, or would Burnham be able to touch the rocks underneath? Would the room move the furniture out of the way if need be?

- People seem to use their personal transporters depending on the circumstance. Tilly and Saru still use the lift to get about normally, but when Stamets is needed on the bridge ASAP, he beams in.

- Stamets is effectively using a hologram as a drone this week, which is a logical evolution of holo-person technology, merged with the remote unit LaForge once used in TNG.

- Strangely though, the chair he uses is not a 32nd century standard floaty chair. Anachronism?

- A "private channel" now means a Cone of Silence field gets projected over the CO chair (or presumably wherever they need it).

- Discovery herself is pretty well repaired from the damage incurred last week. Door and all!

 

[Unicron]

I have to admit, having mini-transporters built into the com badges is a form of tech creep I'm coming to really dislike. I get that one of the goals is to make the 32nd century seem more advanced than what we've seen before, but at some point introducing too much advanced tech just ruins storytelling. It's also visually distracting to me.

 

[Deks]

I have to admit, having mini-transporters built into the com badges is a form of tech creep I'm coming to really dislike. I get that one of the goals is to make the 32nd century seem more advanced than what we've seen before, but at some point introducing too much advanced tech just ruins storytelling. It's also visually distracting to me.

You do realize you live in a technologically advanced world in which science and technology evolve exponentially.

There's no such thing as 'too advanced technology'. Good writers would know how to write decent/intelligent stories that FIT into that setting. Disco had an opportunity to do that and it unfortunately did not.

Mini transporters being built into the com badges should have been a thing by the time ST: Picard aired.

Portable transporter units existed in the late 24th century at the time of VOY (early to mid 2370-ies) and you could carry them in your hand (they were a bit bulky and sizeable though).
When ST: Nemesis released (which took place in 2379), we saw a portable transporter capable of beaming a person only once which was smaller than a commbadge.

By the time of ST Picard (20 years later) that mini transporter from ST: Nemesis should have been incorporated into the commbadge already which also should have had the same 30 seconds to a minute or two between transport cycles for recharging, much like we saw on Disco)...
The tricorder could have fit into the commbadge by the time of ST: Picard too... although, by that point, the tricorder, commbadge and mini transporter fitting into a commbadge could be reproduced in a way to span the entire size of a uniform and integrated INTO the uniform - such as flexible mini electronics today (think like hundreds of mini transporters, sensors, UT's, power cells, personal shield emitters and transporter buffers... all networked together to provide far greater capabilities.

Since TW beaming was supposed to be a realized thing by the time Spock left for the Kelvin timeline (because Scotty figured it out by then)... UFP should have started using that for moving people and resources around the galaxy by the time of ST: Picard too

In the 32nd century... we'd be dealing with a UFP which was a Type III civilization on its way to becoming Type IV because it colonized most of the surrounding Dwarf galaxies and reached and colonized portions of Andromeda galaxy (which they could have started fixing - or had a much earlier expedition to Andromeda in the 25th or 26th century using QS drive V2 to examine and try to fix the radiation problem back then that would leave UFP on good terms with the natives of that galaxy for future relations).

Disco writers really missed the mark if you ask me and didn't explore all technological options fully.

I am liking the personal transporter (can have some serious fun in showcasing some neat stuff on Trek with that with moving resources and people quickly to distant locations, building, etc). My problem is that they have a 30 second recharge cycle in the 32nd century and are NOT Transwarp based... but then again, Disco writers don't want UFP having nice things in the far future so they handwaved everything away (or ignored it entirely).

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Mini notes:

- Stamets is effectively using a hologram as a drone this week, which is a logical evolution of holo-person technology, merged with the remote unit LaForge once used in TNG.

- Strangely though, the chair he uses is not a 32nd century standard floaty chair. Anachronism?

Synth bodies for expired neural imprints, holo-presence- both previously established treknology used in service of the story. Very cool! Perhaps holo-Stamets' chair is also holographic? Much as VOY's EMH used holographic tissues in "Tattoo" back in 2372.

 

[Ronald Held]

With all that tech in a commbadge, what powers it?

 

[fireproof78]

Quantum.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Although the reference made me glad, I'm bummed out to hear that Soong-type android bodies never publicly catch on. So much for my retirement plan.

 

[Unicron]

You do realize you live in a technologically advanced world in which science and technology evolve exponentially.

Some developments are exponential, yes, but not all of them, and many evolutions require significant time or resources to make practical. Some areas, like aircraft design, are subject to the physical laws of how things fly in addition to whatever technology they incorporate. Modern aircraft are more advanced in ways than their older counterparts, but they're subject to those physical laws. That's why the majority of aircraft designs share the same basic physical shapes, and why those experimental shapes that have been experimented with - like lifting bodies - haven't yet proven to be as capable or versatile. Because physics works differently on those forms. Perhaps one day we'll make use of a new generation of shapes and more advanced internal tech, but we're not there yet.

By the same token, I wouldn't enjoy seeing an episode where Discovery has to fight a space battle but doesn't use its own weaponry. Why go to the trouble, in theory, when you could just beam redshirts into space with super advanced armored suits and hand-scaled phasers that can output the equivalent of a Galaxy-type ship phaser? Have them just teleport around every enemy shot? Hopefully I won't give them any silly ideas. More realistically, a ship based phaser is much more destructive than a hand equivalent because it's scaled up and has access to a stronger power source. A hand weapon can only include a limited number of components, and will only have a more limited range and damage profile. It's not designed for the same mission.

I'm the opposite when it comes to saying no technology is "too" advanced. It has to have a balance, or it becomes a crutch. Having an energy-efficient cloak that works 100% perfectly all the time, maybe even does fancy things we've only seen experimentally (like phased cloaking), and giving that tech to every ship in the fleet isn't innovating to me, it's boring. Cloaks are useful in a dramatic sense precisely because the ones we're accustomed to seeing aren't perfect or even innovative. They drain a lot of power and the crew has to learn how to use the stealth advantage most effectively, because it's not always guaranteed to work reliably. It has risks, and attempts to overcome those flaws (like with phasing) are potentially more deadly than the normal version is. Not every problem should be easy to solve.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Update: the new room we see is not the ready room, which we also see early in 4x02; it’s apparently Burnham’s new quarters. It shares the window type and decor motif as the ready room, but is differently-shaped… A desk and presumably her bed occupy alcoves off the main area, which has a sofa and chairs. I’ve no idea where this could be on the external model, but somewhere on the aft centreline or spine / neck makes sense; the shape is really specific so it’ll be hopefully accounted for somewhere.

What this ISN’T is the previous CO quarters set that Captain Lorca occupied, which was really just a redress of the set also seen as the Burnham /Tilly dorm room. I’m guessing Pike didn’t have the new set either, so maybe it’s a 32nd century addition…

Mark

 

[Deks]

With all that tech in a commbadge, what powers it?

They had power cells the size of a coin in the 31st century during the temporal wars... So there's that.

There is a wide range of things that can power technology in Trek... Environmental radiation for example, piezoelectric, solar (if on a planet - we actually developed solar tech back in 2014 which works at night too harvesting the infrared spectrum), waste energy, and the energy bodies produce when in motion.

All of this combined together with that coin based power cell (which could have all that power generation tech rolled into it).

You could also ask a question what powered the self replicating mines in ds9.
They probably had their own power source, but replication is energy intensive... So they also likely had access to plethora of other power sources... Such as background radiation of space and solar power to name a few.

Also the ds9 technical manual (which isn't canon) suggested the idea of zero point energy in quantum torpedoes...
However, if that was used in a quantum torpedo, no reason it couldn't be used in a self replicating mine and later downscaled to something the size of a coin (but I don't count this one as it's never mentioned).

But it was never mentioned on-screen officially so I don't put any stock into that.

Also self replication was seemingly abandoned the moment it was used... Aka it wasn't used again it seems (or at least we have no evidence or reference that it was used again).