SPY PHOTOS at AICN

[doubleohfive]

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

Quick question.

Is there any chance, at any time in the near future where you WON'T tell me what I'm (supposedly) thinking or what I (supposedly) know or don't know?

Just curious.

Also. Reiterating the request for cliffsnotes.

 

[Sector 7]

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

Quick question.

Is there any chance, at any time in the near future where you WON'T tell me what I'm (supposedly) thinking or what I (supposedly) know or don't know?

Just curious.

Also. Reiterating the request for cliffsnotes.

Ain't gonna happen... we KNOW what you are thinking... at ALL times... we have our sources!

(FYI, if anyone has a quick connection, look at this)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJnoRLW9eg&feature=related

It must be real, the pilots sound like they've been drinking.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

Quick question.

Is there any chance, at any time in the near future where you WON'T tell me what I'm (supposedly) thinking or what I (supposedly) know or don't know?

Just curious.

Also. Reiterating the request for cliffsnotes.

I have a request, too. Please knock off the personal sniping and actually talk about the topic. Think you can handle that?

Do you disagree with my POINTS? If so, put forth your own and let's talk about it. Otherwise, there's not a whole lot of reason for you to be saying anything is there?

 

[Akiraprise]

Mutarada keep the personal crap to yourself or hash it out via PM with Carey. Got something to say about the topic, say it.
Carey would you use the notify mod button one time, please?

This continual dragging of threads off topic is getting tiresome.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

Quick question.

Is there any chance, at any time in the near future where you WON'T tell me what I'm (supposedly) thinking or what I (supposedly) know or don't know?

Just curious.

Also. Reiterating the request for cliffsnotes.

I have a request, too. Please knock off the personal sniping and actually talk about the topic. Think you can handle that?

Do you disagree with my POINTS? If so, put forth your own and let's talk about it. Otherwise, there's not a whole lot of reason for you to be saying anything is there?

CLB - telling people that they have "no grasp on REAL LIFE" right out of the gate while trying to "talk about the topic" does your cause no good. You walk around ALL these threads with a chip on your shoulder the size of a planet - people react negatively and you have the audacity to ask "why?" and continue your little tirades. It's getting tiresome...really...

 

[Akiraprise]

Quick question.

Is there any chance, at any time in the near future where you WON'T tell me what I'm (supposedly) thinking or what I (supposedly) know or don't know?

Just curious.

Also. Reiterating the request for cliffsnotes.

I have a request, too. Please knock off the personal sniping and actually talk about the topic. Think you can handle that?

Do you disagree with my POINTS? If so, put forth your own and let's talk about it. Otherwise, there's not a whole lot of reason for you to be saying anything is there?

CLB - telling people that they have "no grasp on REAL LIFE" right out of the gate while trying to "talk about the topic" does your cause no good. You walk around ALL these threads with a chip on your shoulder the size of a planet - people react negatively and you have the audacity to ask "why?" and continue your little tirades. It's getting tiresome...really...

Enough...

 

[Rivas_Jakarta]

Exactly. Get a life, nerds!

Those of you arguing the finer points of Trek design give normal people like me, who are also Star Trek fans, a bad rap. This extended thread just confirms the stereotype most people have of us. stop already

 

[Vance]

Enough...

And, again, no fault with found by the 'pro-movie-worship' post, despite the obvious insult laid within it.

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

But, I know, since you read this thread every day, Akiraprise, that you didn't find anything WRONG with this blatant insult at people who disagreed with the 'group think'?

 

[Tom Servo]

Enough...

And, again, no fault with found by the 'pro-movie-worship' post, despite the obvious insult laid within it.

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

But, I know, since you read this thread every day, Akiraprise, that you didn't find anything WRONG with this blatant insult at people who disagreed with the 'group think'?

You know, you're the only one complaining about this, and they have answered your complaints many times...give it a rest.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Enough...

And, again, no fault with found by the 'pro-movie-worship' post, despite the obvious insult laid within it.

Now, based upon this conversation, many of you will look at this and say "that looks SOOOO 1970s." If you say, or think, that... it merely proves that you have no grasp on REAL LIFE...

But, I know, since you read this thread every day, Akiraprise, that you didn't find anything WRONG with this blatant insult at people who disagreed with the 'group think'?

Hey, Vance... go check out this thread...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=51129&page=4

Where I've been attacked by a couple of posters for being adamantly ANTI-MOVIE. I've been accused of being an "Abrams-hater" in that very thread... SIMULTANEOUSLY with this one, where you seem to think I'm an "Abrams Groupie?"

Every time you say something that any person of any strongly held perspective disagrees with on here, it always turns into something personal, doesn't it?

How, exactly, did I "insult people who disagree with group think?" ANSWER: I didn't.

I pointed out the REALITY that most modern, up-to-date control technology we've come up with is NOTHING AT ALL like the TNG set design. And that the reason that they did things as they did on TNG wasn't because it was the most technologically advanced solution, but rather because it was the most COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION FOR MAKING A TV SHOW.

I pointed out WHY real switches are preferrable to "touch pads" when operating critical control systems. And gave a real-world example of a time, not all that long ago, when "flat touch controls" were all the rage... and that they were a MISERABLE FAILURE and are no longer used.

I've worked with touchpads on several applications in real life. I don't mean "I've touched buttons"... I mean I've DESIGNED THE CONTROLS. The primary advantages of touch-panels are COST, followed by COST, and with a close runner-up being COST. It's CHEAP, not to put too fine of a point on it.

But it's also less reliable, less accurate, and makes it far easier for the operator to make errors. Those aren't my "guesses" about that sort of thing, it's real-life experience, based upon large samples of statistical data from end-user feedback.

You're on a keyboard right now, clicking a mouse... your computer probably has a LOT of buttons and so forth all over it. Imagine, if you will... having nothign but the monitor, and having to control the computer by touching the monitor screen. Would you be more, or less, productive?

THAT was my point... trying to separate "well, the future will look this way because I saw it on TV" from "this is what actually works, and this is what doesn't work."

I never mentioned anyone by name. I find it interesting to note that several people took it as directed at them... when I was really hoping that instead of taking umbrage and going off on a tiff for having "their group insulted," people would choose NOT to be in that group.

Wishful thinking, I guess, but I keep hoping that people will surprise me in positive ways rather than negative ones...

 

[M'Sharak]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

ANNOUNCEMENT: One more time -- discuss the topic and refrain from taking potshots at each other (you know who you are) or this sucker is closed.

Have I made myself clear?

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

I really don't think we'll be spending any appreciable time dealing with the construction of the Enterprise. It probably won't be addressed at all.

I would've agreed with you prior to Orci's statements at "Grand Slam", but it seems that Orci implied that they would perhaps be showing the assembly of the pieces of the Enterprise in space.

I do agree that its not an imortant part of the film, and maybe only a couple of minutes of screen time (if any) should be dedicated to the ship's construction.

This film is about the crew's backstory, not the ship's.

My understanding was that he just made some comment that the pieces would probably be assembled in space. (Feel free to correct me.)

To me, that sounds like we won't be seeing it at all. If we were, he probably wouldn't be telling us about it. Why would he use the word "probably" if we were going to see it? Either it is, or it isn't. And if he doesn't know, then who does?

Sounds to me like he was saying, "Don't worry about it guys. It gets put together somehow. It's not important to the story. Don't get bogged down on this."

 

[ST:RPG]

Here's a high-tech look at the main controls for Space Shuttle Atlantis.

As , of course, designed in the early 1970s.

And the link above shows the control panel for an F-16 fighter jet.

As, of course, designed in 1974, with modifications through the last decade. The F-16 has been cut from production for 15 years now.

Both of these vehicles are 'cutting-edge' scientific and military vehicles. The Star Trek shuttle pics are comparative to each.

Actually, neither of each are, and are you honestly saying that since this shuttle which is still 200 years old looks like them, it's accurate?

Hmmm, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. It's the type of controls that matter...not how they look, but how they work.

Analog vs. Digital was my main point.

 

[ancient]

AARGH!!! THE BUTTONS LOOK WRONG!!! WTF OMG ABRAMS!!!!

Whew. That felt good.

 

[RAMA]

I pointed out the REALITY that most modern, up-to-date control technology we've come up with is NOTHING AT ALL like the TNG set design. And that the reason that they did things as they did on TNG wasn't because it was the most technologically advanced solution, but rather because it was the most COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION FOR MAKING A TV SHOW.

I pointed out WHY real switches are preferrable to "touch pads" when operating critical control systems. And gave a real-world example of a time, not all that long ago, when "flat touch controls" were all the rage... and that they were a MISERABLE FAILURE and are no longer used.

I've worked with touchpads on several applications in real life. I don't mean "I've touched buttons"... I mean I've DESIGNED THE CONTROLS. The primary advantages of touch-panels are COST, followed by COST, and with a close runner-up being COST. It's CHEAP, not to put too fine of a point on it.

But it's also less reliable, less accurate, and makes it far easier for the operator to make errors. Those aren't my "guesses" about that sort of thing, it's real-life experience, based upon large samples of statistical data from end-user feedback.

Y.

This is just silly....touch screen controls are used all the time, they are making advances in the market....microsoft's new touch table tech and ipods, iphone all use the same technology and new phones are being released which copy them. Kiosk touch panels are common. Its not going away!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html

Now one thing you forgot to take into consideration is advancing technology....even now something as simple as rfids are changing how multitouch tech is used. There's no reason to believe that feedback controls won't be used even in the near future. Ones that are way more reactive than anything we have now. In short, its just not that hard to believe that the LCARS system on STNG is doable, what's more, the LCARS system may well be obsolete by 2025!!! It might just look like a futuristic version of this:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4224762.html?series=37

Or even a somewhat different touch system, this:

Something that Raytheon is working on right now:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/15/raytheons-knockoff-of-the-minority-report-ui/

 

[Franklin]

I pointed out the REALITY that most modern, up-to-date control technology we've come up with is NOTHING AT ALL like the TNG set design. And that the reason that they did things as they did on TNG wasn't because it was the most technologically advanced solution, but rather because it was the most COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION FOR MAKING A TV SHOW.

I pointed out WHY real switches are preferrable to "touch pads" when operating critical control systems. And gave a real-world example of a time, not all that long ago, when "flat touch controls" were all the rage... and that they were a MISERABLE FAILURE and are no longer used.

I've worked with touchpads on several applications in real life. I don't mean "I've touched buttons"... I mean I've DESIGNED THE CONTROLS. The primary advantages of touch-panels are COST, followed by COST, and with a close runner-up being COST. It's CHEAP, not to put too fine of a point on it.

But it's also less reliable, less accurate, and makes it far easier for the operator to make errors. Those aren't my "guesses" about that sort of thing, it's real-life experience, based upon large samples of statistical data from end-user feedback.

Y.

This is just silly....touch screen controls are used all the time, they are making advances in the market....microsoft's new touch table tech and ipods, iphone all use the same technology and new phones are being released which copy them. Kiosk touch panels are common. Its not going away!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html

Now one thing you forgot to take into consideration is advancing technology....even now something as simple as rfids are changing how multitouch tech is used. There's no reason to believe that feedback controls won't be used even in the near future. Ones that are way more reactive than anything we have now. In short, its just not that hard to believe that the LCARS system on STNG is doable, what's more, the LCARS system may well be obsolete by 2025!!! It might just look like a futuristic version of this:


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html

I'll say one thing, I wouldn't mind having the market cornered on the Windex concession when everything goes touch screen.

 

[FordSVT]

I'd point out that, while not "canon", the TNG Tech Manual states that the LCARS touch panels provide a tactile feedback to the user and are fully configurable, something that would be much less flexible with fixed switches and buttons. This is reinforced by descriptions from several Trek novels I've read. While the set props were obviously static, back-lit cut-outs, they were not intended to be by the designers. That's not an argument against the point, the dilithium chamber doesn't really mix M/AM either.

Sort of negates some of Cary L Brown's points yes?

 

[number6]

Sort of negates some of Cary L Brown's points yes?

Assuming he had any.

 

[ancient]

Cary made a very good point about today's tech, and why touch-screens aren't used on anything more critically important than a music player.

As for Trek, it's a stylistic, romantic thing mostly, and has little to do with reliable tech predictions. I want my flashies! I care not what kind of flashy!

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I'd point out that, while not "canon", the TNG Tech Manual states that the LCARS touch panels provide a tactile feedback to the user and are fully configurable, something that would be much less flexible with fixed switches and buttons. This is reinforced by descriptions from several Trek novels I've read. While the set props were obviously static, back-lit cut-outs, they were not intended to be by the designers. That's not an argument against the point, the dilithium chamber doesn't really mix M/AM either.

Sort of negates some of Cary L Brown's points yes?

Why, yes, that's exactly why all of our mission-critical hardware in aviation uses touch-pads for the controls...

Oh, right, I forgot... they don't. They don't for exactly the reasons I stated. Nothing I said was "negated."

Touch pads are great for certain situations... because they are CHEAP and because they are space-efficient. But my point about the abject failure of "flat keyboards" for computers is undeniable. Yes, you can use touch-screens for kiosks... but you'll never see the same technology used in aircraft MFD panels.

It's not a huge problem for you to have to stare at the screen at the airport checkin line and touch the screen repeatedly 'til the marginally-functional light-matrix grid on top of that display actually registers that your finger was there. You have the TIME to deal with the limitations of technology.

It's CHEAP. Do you HONESTLY think that the airlines chose it because it's "better technology" or that its more "error-free?" Nope, they chose it because it's inexpensive to buy and inexpensive to maintain. And they don't care if you (the traveler) have to struggle a tiny bit more in order to accomplish the same thing on that which you might accomplish a little more effectively with a physical control pad. And you, as the traveller, can afford to spend that extra little bit of concentration in order to make it work.

A fighter pilot, a space shuttle pilot... ANYONE who's involved in activities which require split-second error-free actions... is not going to want to use something like a touch-panel.

C'mon, guys... I know that a few of you (#6?) just wanna take cheap shots at me because I'm not in your club, but seriously... try to address the issues I've raised if you're going to try to argue against my points. I never denied that touch panels are in use, or that they're going to go away. Only that in situations where accuracy or reaction time are important, they have proven to be abject failures. Their advantage is solely that they're dirt-cheap. And that's not a MINOR advantage in the modern world.

But I'd sure hope that the Enterprise's control panels wouldn't be build by the lowest bidder without regard for their usability!