Spock's appearance

[UnknownSample]

The later series tended to have their alien features follow human physiology that doesn't necessarily show on the surface. Sometimes it becomes apparent that we have certain slanted muscles in our foreheads, above and parallel to where Vulcan eyebrows would go, which show up during some facial expressions. I forget which. I think most recently I might have noticed them showing up on Kirk...

 

[2takesfrakes]

And I never liked that look. In the third season, she went to the upswept eyebrows and lighter colored hair and she looked stunning.

I completely agree with this assessment. When I saw Jolene Blalock finally being allowed to look gorgeous as T'Pol, I actually found myself annoyed by the fact that nothing was done to her that couldn't have happened in the first episode. She could have - and should have - ALWAYS looked this way! Even in the Mirror Universe Episode, she didn't look as lovely as she did in "These Are The Voyages."

The wigs she always wore looked like shit and her makeup was never flattering enough. It looked functional, in the sense that it was the quickest, easiest way to get Jolene in character. The upswept eyebrows probably wouldn't have even been necessary, if they did her right, to start with.

But I'm not anti-slanted eyebrows, either. I just don't see them as necessary and why not give the actors and makeup Artists a break? Vulcans could be made to seem 'alien' enough with their stoicism and magical powers, where the look could be modified in such a way.

 

[Christopher]

Scuttlebutt at the time was that someone broke into the makeup department at Paramount and stole the mold that Worf's forehead appliances were cast from, and they had to make a new one. How reliable that story is, I have no idea, but the fact that they so obviously did make a new one lends credence to its plausibility.

I don't think that can be true, because one of the Klingon crew members in "A Matter of Honor" in season 2 had Worf's season 1 forehead, or at least it looked to me like he did.

 

[johnnybear]

I never liked the appearance of The Romulans or The Vulcans in the later shows either! That v-shaped forehead seemed to be for all the guest actors excepting Mark Lenard and of course Leonard Nimoy! Who would have dared to ask him anyway?
JB

 

[Christopher]

The reason for giving the Romulans forehead appliances, aside from differentiating them from Vulcans and just making the design a bit more interesting, was to spare the guest actors from having to shave off their eyebrows.

 

[Trekfan12]

I think the makeup on Spock made him look elegant, regal and highly intelligence.

 

[UnknownSample]

magical powers

I very much hope that was a joke.
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There was actually no reason they had to give Vulcan women that bangs haircut, same as the men. They didn't in TOS.
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We're SO used to a human actor coming on the screen who's supposed to be some sort of alien, somehow, that I'm sure a lot of us these days don't need much in the way of visual cues. It's a big problem, though, for any viewer who actually thinks about SF possibilities and cares about believability, that all aliens have to look so human, because they have to be played by human actors. The small changes made to an actor to make them Vulcan are almost nothing. They still look basically human. Independent evolution is not going to produce pointy eared humans on other planets... A Horta, maybe...So they can't afford to lose a single alien visual cue, or the invisible stuff, like the heart being on the side.
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This is just subjective tastes, not liking the eybrows so much, of course... another fan might say "Those eyebrows were great, they established Spock as alien. Pointed ears were unnecessary!" I like the whole package, myself.

 

[2takesfrakes]

No, I wasn't taking the mickey - I consider Spock's Vulcan powers to be magical; the result of a writer's vivid imagination and not based on science. Even the pointed ears required to hear sound in Vulcan's thin atmosphere seems a bit silly. On earth, there are many animals with keen hearing and no external ears at all, like birds, for example. I'm not knocking Vulcans for being so make-believe. Quite the contrary, in fact. When Spock touches a wall in his cell and uses his magic to manipulate a guard into unlocking the door and setting him and the other captives free, as a for instance ... it's good stuff! But I'd hardly call it Hard Science.

 

[UnknownSample]

No one would call it hard science or hard SF, but there's this great big area between fantasy and hard SF, soft SF. That's where most SF is.

No magical incantations are involved. You probably consider telepathy etc. to be disproven. People have failed to prove it, that's something different. SF requires reaching beyond what's known, sometimes far beyond. Contact between minds does not seem absolutely impossible.

 

[David Strickhouser]

Gene Roddenberry had Leonard Nimoy already in mind when he envisioned Mr. Spock, although D.C. Fontana said he originally was to be "Martian" with a red complexion. Red complexion looked "black" on the black&white TV's of the day, so a lighter complexion, a sallow yellow was used.
Nimoy had a lean angular face which lent itself well to Fred Phillips' makeup design.
So any actor (male or female) with thin frame and angular facial features will work as a Vulcan.

 

[mos6507]

Interesting thought. Consider also that when they revamped the Romulan look on TNG, they included more severe makeup, including a heavier brow.

That I never liked. TNG went overboard with the whole forehead appliance schtick. Sometimes less is more.

 

[2takesfrakes]

No one would call it hard science or hard SF, but there's this great big area between fantasy and hard SF, soft SF. That's where most SF is.

No magical incantations are involved. You probably consider telepathy etc. to be disproven. People have failed to prove it, that's something different. SF requires reaching beyond what's known, sometimes far beyond. Contact between minds does not seem absolutely impossible.

Well ... it's no different to me, than say, watching puppets, you know? It's just a different way of telling a story. This wood, plastic, cloth and strings has no meaning in itself, but if you manipulate those materials in an entertaining way, you can tell familiar stories in a way that captures people's attention, more readily.

When Spock's neck-pinching the enemy, or mind-melding with a madman ... whilst envisaged with the ears and bangs and all that ... it's the same thing, isn't it? Telling stories of good vs. evil, or the foibles of Man, or whatever, in an entertaining way.

And if Spock's telepathy does turn out to have its basis in fact, well ... hey ... it's all good. The Reality it's then based on only adds to the story. But if it remains as only so much make-believe, nothing's been taken away from the entertainment value of it. Not at all ...

 

[The Old Mixer]

God beings, warp drives, transporters, replicators? No problem. Telepathy? Right out!

 

[Christopher]

God beings, warp drives, transporters, replicators? No problem. Telepathy? Right out!

Well, the difference is that warp drive and teleportation are extrapolations of real theories -- unlikely to ever be practically achievable, but at least with some basis in reality. But past "experimental evidence" of telepathy or other psi powers has been pretty thoroughly debunked, and nobody's ever been able to offer a theoretical model for how psi powers would work if they did exist. So it's basically just fantasy -- the same thing as ancient beliefs in sorcery and magic spells, but with Greek-derived labels stuck on to make it sound "scientific."

I can't help you with "God beings," though. Those are also pretty much fantasy. But I don't know why you'd put replicators on that list of improbabilities, given that we already have 3D printers.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Do these 3D printers use matter/energy conversion to turn raw deuterium into a cheeseburger and beam it directly into a slot in your wall?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Do these 3D printers use matter/energy conversion to turn raw deuterium into a cheeseburger and beam it directly into a slot in your wall?

Tastes like....polymers.

 

[Christopher]

Do these 3D printers use matter/energy conversion to turn raw deuterium into a cheeseburger and beam it directly into a slot in your wall?

Except for the last bit, none of that is how a replicator works. I recommend you re-read the TNG Technical Manual.

And there is a real difference between an unlikely extrapolation from a real scientific principle, like an advanced form of 3D printer, and a completely magical idea with absolutely zero basis in theory, like psychic powers. True, back in the '60s and '70s, there were some experiments that seemed to show evidence of paranormal phenomena, so a lot of science fiction built on that possibility under the assumption that there was a scientific basis to it. But as I said, nobody ever managed to present a hypothesis for just how the hell such powers could possibly work, what physical phenomenon was enabling such perception or communication; and since then, those experimental results have been debunked as the result of sloppy experimental design and/or deliberate fraud. (Scientists are trained to base their conclusions on the evidence they observe, so that leaves them vulnerable to sleight of hand that deceives the senses. It took magicians like James Randi getting into the act to expose how fraudulent psychics were fooling the scientists.)

 

[The Old Mixer]

I could go back and forth some more on this, but it behooves me to set an example, and none of this has anything to do with Spock's eyebrows.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I could go back and forth some more on this, but it behooves me to set an example, and none of this has anything to do with Spock's eyebrows.

Can you make them with a 3D printer?

 

[Poltargyst]

I have no problem with the idea that in time a previously unknown energy type is discovered that allows for psychic abilities and that Vulcan brains evolved to be able to manipulate it. What's the big deal?