Spock knows the timeline changed because --?

[Kryton]

Didn't the Vulcan Science authority more or less not accept time travel beyond mere theory until that first slingshot in "The Naked Time"?

Though I realize a big chunk of ENT and it's whole "Futureguy" and Daniels plots would seem to belie that in at least T'Pol's eyes, I suppose.

 

[M'Sharak]

Didn't the Vulcan Science authority more or less not accept time travel beyond mere theory until that first slingshot in "The Naked Time"?

No, it was the theoretical intermix formula used in that episode which Spock said had never been tested, not that time travel was thought impossible then:

SCOTT [OC]: Engineers, man your stations. Engine rooms, report. Cycling station, report. This will be an emergency restart of engines.
KIRK: Where have you been? What happened?
SPOCK: My mother. I could never tell her I loved her.
KIRK: We've got four minutes, maybe five.
SPOCK: An Earth woman, living on a planet where love, emotion, is bad taste.
KIRK: We've got to risk a full-power start. The engines were shut off. No time to regenerate them. Do you hear me? We've got to risk a full-power start!
SPOCK: I respected my father, our customs. I was ashamed of my Earth blood. (Kirk slaps him) Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed.
KIRK: (hitting him repeatedly) You've got to hear me! We need a formula. We've got to risk implosion!
SPOCK: It's never been done! Understand, Jim. I've spent a whole lifetime learning to hide my feelings. (finally hits Kirk back)
KIRK: We've got to risk implosion. It's our only chance.
SPOCK: It's never been done.
KIRK: Don't tell me that again, Science Officer! It's a theory. It's possible. We may go up into the biggest ball of fire since the last sun in these parts exploded, but we've got to take that one in ten thousand chance!
UHURA [OC]: Bridge to Captain. Engineer asked, did you find
KIRK: Yes, I found Mister Spock! I'm talking to Mister Spock, do you understand?
UHURA: Yes, sir. Three and a half minutes left, Captain.
KIRK: I've got it, the disease. Love. You're better off without it, and I'm better off without mine. This vessel, I give, she takes. She won't permit me my life. I've got to live hers.
SPOCK: Jim.
KIRK: I have a beautiful yeoman. Have you noticed her, Mister Spock? You're allowed to notice her. The Captain's not permitted
SPOCK: Jim, there is an intermix formula.
KIRK: Now I know why it's called she.
SPOCK: It's never been tested. It's a theoretical relationship between time and antimatter.
KIRK: Flesh woman to touch, to hold. A beach to walk on. A few days, no braid on my shoulder.
SCOTT: Captain.
KIRK: Scotty, help.
SPOCK: Stand by to intermix. I'll call the formulae in from the Bridge.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/7.htm

Though I realize a big chunk of ENT and it's whole "Futureguy" and Daniels plots would seem to belie that in at least T'Pol's eyes, I suppose.

Recall that the standard line was "The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible" until events seen in "Shockwave, Part 2" poked a hole in it, all the way from the 31st century.

T'POL: Science Vulcan Directorate has determined that time travel is... not fair.

That time travel is believed to exist is not a problem in the timeframe of this movie -- only how it's done (if that even needs to be explained in the context of the story.)

 

[Kryton]

I may have missed the second part of Shockwave as I gave up on ENT for about a season and a half for a while there (until Manny Coto became showrunner...like a lot of folks the show just wasn't working for me until he embraced TOS).

 

[875020709]

Hang on a femto-second folks. I NEVER said the Guardian would be mentioned in the film. I merely stated that as my humble explanation of why Spock is not changed when the timeline changes. It will be one of those things left up to the viewer.

Jeesh!

 

[starburst]

Maybe they find out what Neros plan is in the 24th Century and decide the only way to stop him isto travel back in time and stop him...similar to what happened in the first Terminator.

More realistic than Spock somehow being unaffected

 

[Cky]

Well all this speculation, there will be an explination in the comic book that is being released before the release of Star Trek. And as it has Data, Picard and Nero (with no tattoo's) it's a safe bet that Spock follows him in to the past.

 

[Psion]

SPOCK is the one who's gone crazy, and Nero is following HIM back in time.

 

[TowerPower]

M'Sharak:

Thanks for the link to chakoteya.net.

That is a useful reference page.

 

[ITL]

Maybe Spock's teeny ship travels back in time inside Nero's bloody huge tentacley thingy ship? No? Oh, please yourselves.

EDIT: What with Spock's ship being a "timeship" it probably doesn't....I'll get me coat...

 

[cooleddie74]

I stated this in another thread. Spock is on Romulus working toward Unification. He tries to contact Vulcan.....but it isn't there. Not only has Vulcan been destroyed (from Spock's POV) but it was destroyed in the past.

My guess on why Spock knows that Vulcan had existed in his past is that he was protected from the chnage in the timeline. Remember, he has travelled through the Guardian of Forever. If you think about it, the only way anyone could travel through the Guardian would be if they were somehow protected from changes in timelines.

IS the Guardian used in the film though? I thought Spock used a small, one-man "temporal ship" powered by a chroniton core or some other such TREKnology?

 

[cooleddie74]

I agree.

I wonder where the idea Spocks ship is a"timeship" came from; fan-sumption, or did JJ actually say that?

This article from May 27 is the earliest mention of Spock's timeship that I can recall. It's also where we heard about Nero's ship and the Kelvin.

And the Star Trek XI Ships section of the ex-astris-scientia site shows a shot of the "Spock Timeship" and offers a brief description of it allegedly being powered by some sort of "temporal drive core."

 

[M'Sharak]

IS the Guardian used in the film though?

It is not. That was never anything more than a rumor.

 

[cooleddie74]

IS the Guardian used in the film though?

It is not. That was never anything more than a rumor.

That's what I've been thinking. There are even available screen shots of Spock's one-man timeship on several different sites and it's seen in the trailer. Why would he need a portal or gateway if he is seen piloting a timeship? Some fans just conjecture TOO much.

 

[M'Sharak]

IS the Guardian used in the film though?

It is not. That was never anything more than a rumor.

That's what I've been thinking. There are even available screen shots of Spock's one-man timeship on several different sites and it's seen in the trailer. Why would he need a portal or gateway if he is seen piloting a timeship? Some fans just conjecture TOO much.

It was apparently taken seriously enough that another writer of Trek stories contacted Harlan Ellison to ask him whether he'd given permission. Of course, no one had asked because there was nothing to it, but that didn't stop the whole thing from turning into a third-stage internet uproar, concluding with someone buttonholing Harlan while he was on the picket line during the writers' strike and getting a typically colorful candid interview with him to set things straight.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'll confess. The Guardian idea WOULD be vastly superior in many regards and resurrect one of the most beloved elements of classic TOS, something even many self-professed non-fans or detractors would admit to knowing about or recognizing.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Reminds me of one of my old threads:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=39939

 

[cooleddie74]

Harlan Ellison wouldn't even be happy with the color of his own urine and would probably threaten to sue his bladder.

 

[Samurai8472]

maybe Spock felt a disturbance in the force?

 

[cooleddie74]

Theory: while on Romulus and underground he noticed waves and ripples in a computer database he was reading and saw history being altered ever so slightly? Noted that his old friend James Kirk either no longer appeared in history texts...or that his recorded role in events in the 23rd century had radically changed and for the worse?

 

[shapeshifter]

maybe Spock felt a disturbance in the force?

Ala TMP when he suddenly senses V'ger.