Spock Character Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by JoaquinSlowly, Apr 1, 2022.

  1. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Who knows what Vulcans do in private behind closed doors?
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Please quote me some dialog where this is stated.
     
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  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Sure Dorothy said Vulcans should never kiss, but it has never been said in canon that they don't.

    So it doesn't contradict the shows/movies.
     
  4. KirkusOveractus

    KirkusOveractus Commodore Commodore

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    And in the Kelvin Universe, Spock kissed Uhura a few times.
     
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  5. Donald G

    Donald G Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not stated in dialogue, but rather in a production memo from Dorothy Fontana protesting the revision of the seduction scene in "The Enterprise Incident," quoted in an extended footnote on page 246 of the Ninth Printing (September, 1976) of David Gerrold's THE WORLD OF STAR TREK.

    Fontana writes: "Sc. 93---seduction scene---Spock and Commander. Vulcans and Romulans have been firmly established as cool, unemotional creatures. True, Spock is half human---but only under the most extreme circumstances will he behave in any manner other than Vulcan. We have established that Vulcans do not nuzzle, kiss, hug or display any other form of human affection. The Vulcan outward sign of affection is expressed in a certain touching of hands as demonstrated in " Journey to Babel." If Spock behaves in such outlandishly human manner as is indicated in this scene, he violates the character we have established for him and the culture he comes from. And the Commander had jolly well be suspicious if Spock starts slobbering all over her. Their seduction scene should be cool, suggesting an alien sexuality---but not human passion."

    So, while this statement is from a production memo, and technically not canon, it is from the writer of "Journey to Babel" and "Yesteryear," and shows her thinking on the subject, and in light of this note, hence my comment 26 days ago that Dorothy Fontana must be spinning in her grave.

    No, it doesn't contradict canon, whatever definition that term has on whatever particular day of the week you choose. It does contradict intent and previous characterization and behind the scenes lore. Now, whether SNW creators should take into account production discussions of 54 years vintage is another question entirely.

    For my credits, they can do as they like. My only care is whether they execute their ideas well. I consider myself a post-Canonist. Canonical status is not a guarantee of whether an idea or interpretation is an intelligent one.

    Again, I am stoked for this series. Only a couple of bits of pre-release publicity have given me pause, but not enough to derail my enthusiasm or turn me into a deranged hater. If I can survive "And The Children Shall Lead" and "Plato's Stepchildren," I think I can deal with whatever curveballs SNW tries to throw at me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
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  6. Donald G

    Donald G Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    "On second thought, let's not go to the Kelvin Universe. It is a silly place."
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He was in a different place.
     
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  8. Donald G

    Donald G Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    And with somewhat different life experiences, and perhaps a more pointed rebellion at aspects of his Vulcan upbringing than Spock-Prime.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hmmm...more like more permission to be himself.
     
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  10. valden

    valden Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Be nice to the kelvin verse. It is a masterpiece compared to discovery and Picard. Additionally that was an alternate version of spock that likes to do alternate things:nyah:
     
  11. valden

    valden Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    [Be nice to the kelvin verse. It is a masterpiece compared to discovery and Picard. Additionally that was an alternate version of spock that likes to do alternate things:nyah:
     
  12. Mutai Sho-Rin

    Mutai Sho-Rin Crusty Old Bastard Moderator

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    Is there ever a post where you don’t shit on Discovery and Picard? It has become really tiresome and you’d be wise to drop it.
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did Fontana create the Vulcans? Was she responsible for "Amok Time," actually the major look inside Vulcan culture in TOS?

    No, and no.

    "Journey to Babel" and "Yesteryear" are among the finest episodes in the entire franchise, but they are neither the first word nor last word on Vulcan culture. Many authors besides Fontana have fleshed out who Vulcans are, and many continue to do so.
     
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  14. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    T'Paul kissed Trip. Kelvin Spock kissed Kelvin Uhura.
     
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  15. valden

    valden Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I always also assumed spock kisses kelvin uhura because she is human and he is half human and humans like to kiss
    Urgh why is this even a conversation.
     
  16. Donald G

    Donald G Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Because, I would speculate, someone finally noticed a long-ignored post in this thread that I made 27 days ago based on old-school fan reasoning without taking into account 21st century revisions, and that sparked a chain reaction that led to the current discussion.

    When pressed on the topic, I cited my source informing my outdated assumption, while acknowledging that it wasn't technically "canon" and that the current team can do as they wish and that the only thing that really matters is if they do it well.

    But you know discussion threads in fandom - People just can't accept, "Yes, you have a point and may actually be correct in your position" as an answer, or, "You know, I might just actually have mellowed in my initial concerns over the almost four weeks since I made that contentious observation."

    People want decisive victories in arguments, so it turns into a game of intellectual one-upsmanship or a demonstration of knowledge of deep trivia - and I am as guilty of this tendency as anyone else, although I try to fight the temptation, and don't succeed as often as I should.

    But enough of the meta. I have no desire to cause further friction on this topic.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because character sexuality is a topic of discussion. Always.
     
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  18. Voodoowoman2

    Voodoowoman2 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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  19. Mutai Sho-Rin

    Mutai Sho-Rin Crusty Old Bastard Moderator

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    What is your point in simply quoting another post? That ain’t how it’s done.
     
  20. Donald G

    Donald G Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Voodoowoman2's response to my post ended up within the quote tags and appended to the end of my comment.
     
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