Spock and Uhura [SPOILERS]

[Bobatiel]

Sounds like Peyton Place in Outerspace.

Well it is space opera.

No, its a soap opera. Actually I'm not that upset or angry, I just don't think they made the right decision along these lines in the long run. It's a quick, get rich, short term gain, but is done at the expense of not having lasting value like a long term investment does.

I liked the tone of your post and did not ascribe any anger to it at all. In fact the tone of our post makes it quite a persuasive one. It's a well constructed opinion piece, I think.

But, I disagree with it (even though you make me stop and think about it) I think it does have a lasting value. It's a lot like your post. It forces you to stop in your tracks for the purposes of examination. The easy way out would have been to just do the same thing over and over again. We know what Spock and Uhura are like given the prime timeline. But what if circumstances were different...? And btw, I think Spock and Uhura are being very professional during the movie.

 

[indranee]

the thing is, if this was a TV series, this would have more of a chance to become soap opera-ish. as it is, I am quite hopeful (esp judging from how it was handled in this movie) that it won't turn into one.

 

[seniorsleuth]

the thing is, if this was a TV series, this would have more of a chance to become soap opera-ish. as it is, I am quite hopeful (esp judging from how it was handled in this movie) that it won't turn into one.

Not to mention, if one adopts the theory that merely by containing a romance, something automatically becomes a soap opera, we would be dismissing 80 percent of all human literature, art, and popular culture as soap opera. Bye, bye Shakespeare.

 

[indranee]

yes, and bye bye Dr. Zhivago.

 

[Bobatiel]

And again, I refer to City on the Edge of Forever which is commonly revered as the very best of Trek.

 

[indranee]

we heard you the first time

 

[Bobatiel]

we heard you the first time

You're missing my male nuance

 

[maryh]

Ahhh, but did Shakespeare, Dr Zhivago, City on the Edge etc have SEQUELS!! That is the point.

 

[indranee]

Shakespeare is the most sequeled man in dramatic history!

 

[indranee]

we heard you the first time

You're missing my male nuance

your better half is a rather lucky woman

 

[Jeri]

Seems like I heard that City shows up in some capacity in the novels, too.

 

[maryh]

Shakespeare is the most sequeled man in dramatic history!

The Taming of the Shrew -- Part 2 "The Feminist Years"

Romeo and Juliet -- Part 2 "Divorce"

As You Like It -- Part 2 "I don't Like it Anymore"

A Midsummers Night Dream -- Part 2 "A Midwinter's Reality"

Shakespeare rarely get "updated" or spinoffs or sequels because you don't want to mess with perfection.

 

[indranee]

are we talking cross-genre? because I am.

 

[Bobatiel]

we heard you the first time

You're missing my male nuance

your better half is a rather lucky woman

We agree yet again.

 

[maryh]

are we talking cross-genre? because I am.

I think you are calling "covers" of Shakespeare as sequels. They are not the same. Most of Shakespeare's plays ended and there was no room for sequels. Plus they are so good nobody would want to foool with them anyhow. TOS was episodic in nature - not a continuous saga that built on what had happened in each previous episode. There was SOME, but not much. Characters continued, grew a little but each week was a new adventure.

 

[indranee]

You're missing my male nuance

your better half is a rather lucky woman

We agree yet again.

although there's eminent chance she may disagree

 

[indranee]

are we talking cross-genre? because I am.

I think you are calling "covers" of Shakespeare as sequels. They are not the same. Most of Shakespeare's plays ended and there was no room for sequels. Plus they are so good nobody would want to foool with them anyhow. TOS was episodic in nature - not a continuous saga that built on what had happened in each previous episode. There was SOME, but not much. Characters continued, grew a little but each week was a new adventure.

no, I am not talking of "covers". and yes, it's apples and oranges.

having said that, in terms of a capacity for expansion? his plays left plenty of room. not for improvement, mind you, but for expansion. the fact that not many have been attempted is due to the very timorous response much of the Western literary world has exhibited at the prospect of "true" sequels.

 

[maryh]

are we talking cross-genre? because I am.

I think you are calling "covers" of Shakespeare as sequels. They are not the same. Most of Shakespeare's plays ended and there was no room for sequels. Plus they are so good nobody would want to foool with them anyhow. TOS was episodic in nature - not a continuous saga that built on what had happened in each previous episode. There was SOME, but not much. Characters continued, grew a little but each week was a new adventure.

no, I am not talking of "covers". and yes, it's apples and oranges.

having said that, in terms of a capacity for expansion? his plays left plenty of room. not for improvement, mind you, but for expansion. the fact that not many have been attempted is due to the very timorous response much of the Western literary world has exhibited at the prospect of "true" sequels.

Some would disagree with you. Many people complained about a Trek reboot because "Can't Hollywood come up with anything new anymore!! All they keep giving us is reboots, sequels, or variations on a theme from a nostalgic era." Look at the movies right now. Angels and Demons - sequel. Wolverine - prequel, Trek - reboot/prequel/sequel, Quantum of Solace - reboot etc. Some think Hollywood is afraid of doing anything new, other say they lack good writers. IDK but there are lots of remakes out there.

Gotta go.

 

[indranee]

sure, and I am one of them. I was initially not for the idea of this movie. it won me over at first viewing, though. not because it's not flawed... because it attempts something that's always made Trek special for me: taking characterization risks.

as for Shakespeare, I never attempted a PhD in Lit, only the MA... attempting a Shakespearean sequel? as another Brit wrote once (although in a decidedly kitsch-ridden genre!): if I could, I would.

good discussion! don't be a stranger. I like the way you think. gotta go as well... lunch (and my boss) awaits!

 

[seven14]

Hello all,

I have finally made it through the pages of this thread. I don't know if it's too late to join the party as so many of the remarks were made just after the movie first opened and the last remark was made on the 18th, but I want to join in anyway.

Uhura and Spock go together so well. I wrote my first post in another thread, but I want to just share a few more thoughts. This Star Trek (as if anyone needs to be reminded) is taking place in a alternate time...I am so glad that we are not seeing a copy of the Spock and Uhura of TOS. They exist in their own time and are following their own path.

I am fully embracing the new. Uhura is a Strong, Intelligent, Dignified, and Independent woman who just also happens to be fine of figure and face. It was mentioned that if a relationship began as teacher/student then Spock was unethical and so on, but I imagine Starfleet as Nasa, in that the Cadets have already secured their Upper level degrees..from Bachelors on up...which is to say, while Spock is a few years older, and he is her instructor, Uhura is an adult. They are engaged in a consentual relationship, which I do believe is sexual.

Now, we do not need to see sex to know a couple is in a loving, monogamous, romantic, sexual relationship. More than the Kisses, which one person actually described as repulsive and after questioned tried to clean it up by saying they wish it were them in the turbolift instead...Ok..whatever, more than the kisses we have the words Uhura speaks to Spock which make me feel she is the perfect companion for him.

Uhura is not in his pants or forcing herself on him, or being aggressive, or any of the other negative words attached to her in a few posts.

I am also soooooo happy that I did not read any spoilers about the movie before I took myself to see it. The pairing was a surprise to me and by the time we left the turbolift (yes, "we") I was in love with this couple!!!

A few of the posts seemed to be questioning why Spock would be with Uhura...to this, I attribute, they have not embraced the new...they are still thinking of the Original Spock. What is a little funny to me so far, is that I have not read, any posters questioning why Uhura would be with Spock. Here are my feelings on the matter.

Uhura is all those things I mentioned above, but she is also logical...let's just say in her fictional reality Spock looks nothing like Zachary Quinto or a young Leonard Nimoy, both handsome of face, but he is extremely intelligent, confident, secure, mature, kind, honest, dignified, and for aesthetics tall and fit(but truly these last two are not necessary)...to me, when you have 2 people who incorporate these qualities, and they are working close together and enjoying one another's mental strengths and capabilities, neither has to look like Zoe and Zachary for deep understanding and eventually love to take root.

Some one said it so perfectly...Uhura has Spock wrapped around her little finger, and for me, he wants it just that way.

Let's not keep harping on Spock wouldn't do this or that or act like this or that...because as soon as you begin that argument, you are revealing that you are speaking of a young Spock Prime...not the Present Spock of ST XI...we don't know what this Spock will do...we do know that right now, he is in love with a woman who gets him...who doesn't push him to be more human or manipulate him with her emotions to be this way or that...when she offers to be there for him and asks him to tell her if there is anyway that she can help...she says it with conviction...ask me, and it's done...she can speak this way, because he has already shown her that he feels the same way regarding her well-being (the reassignment scene), she had but to present her case and without question her wishes were mollified.

I don't think Uhura will ever push Spock to be more human...I don't think she will ever push him to be anything...all he has to continue to be is himself She accepts him which allows Spock to continue his journey of self-discovery to be a Vulcan who is endeavoring to control his emotion and to use logic and reason to it's fullest potential.

In the next installment, there is no reason they can't be a couple..both are extremely professional...just because Scotty and Kirk saw their farewell intimacy in the transporter room doesn't mean they are going to be skipping down the corridors, holding hands, and singing to one another, I have no doubt they can conduct themselves as mature adults.

I would like to see a little drama for them though perhaps instead of T'Pring, bring on board a charming ambassador who falls in love with Uhura, since Spock doesn't have a firm handle on his emotions, lets see some jealousy...insecurity...confusion and anger...and let's see Uhura work out a solution to bring her man back to reality!!!

Oh, I write so much...I have no sci fi friends so I am going overboard