In requiem, spock finds a brahms composition sitting on a harpsichord, which is in itself wrong, by the time brahms was composing the harsipchord was already obsolete,Brahms was also a late romantic composer,and this is a simple baroque dance piece, something a court composer would have thrown together for say a party the king was giving.Someone of Flints taste(after all he has a Sten from Marcus Two)wouldnt have such a frivolous piece like this.
Spock and Brahms
- Thread starter hifijohn
- Start date
Yes, but assuming Flint were all the famous people he claimed to be, the harpsichord (his interest in composing a piece for one) is a relic of a previous identity. And the song itself is a bit of whimsy from a man with many faces.
Wonder if Flint was a gene thief like this fella? That would explain a lot. https://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Steth_(impostor)
Wonder if Flint was a gene thief like this fella? That would explain a lot. https://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Steth_(impostor)
I like how Spock was able to sightread the waltz. Didn't realize he was that skilled at the piano/keyboard.
While the exterior of the instrument is ornately decorated, as indeed some harpsichords are, the instrument we hear is very definitely a piano and not a harpsichord. Just listen:
No. It isn't.
First, a triple-meter dance tune of the Baroque would be a Menuette; there are no Baroque waltzes*, and the manuscript shown in the scene clearly has "Walzer" written at the top, indicating the one we hear Spock playing to be the first of a set of several waltzes, in the manner of his Op.39 Sixteen Waltzes. (The manuscript page seen in Spock's hand is in fact music for the first of those sixteen, though of course that's not what we hear.)
Second, Brahms wrote quite a number of waltzes for piano, and the example heard in that scene would not have been stylistically out of place among them - it's very much a sort of late-Romantic take on a waltz that Brahms might have written. If it sounds simple at the beginning, it may lend itself well to later elaboration in the form of variations — something Brahms also did very well.
* Prior to Mozart, what became known as the waltz would have been any of several peasant dances of rural Austria and Bohemia, among them the ländler.
Furthermore, the music Spock actually plays (albeit the simple theme that later might grow more engaging and challenging) should be trivial to do prima vista for somebody with a basic command of the keyboard. And if Spock can play an Earth instrument, piano would be his first choice, being the fundamental introduction to the harmonics and tuning system that dominates all Earth music from the 19th century on.
That Spock would recognize it for a Brahms waltz is a non-issue, too. Spock need recognize neither the music nor the notation style - he is holding the manuscript that says "Johannes Brahms" on the first page, in Brahms' hand that Spock supposedly recognizes. Spock simply doesn't have a reason to think that the music itself would be a fake.
Or, more exactly, the music is yet another example of those things that Spock finds so puzzling about Flint's castle - a piece of art that should not be a forgery (for the wealthy connoisseur would have no truck with those) but logically must be (as the real things would not be available), despite having all the telltales of a real deal (that is, no counterindications Spock can spot, beyond "this cannot exist").
Timo Saloniemi
That Spock would recognize it for a Brahms waltz is a non-issue, too. Spock need recognize neither the music nor the notation style - he is holding the manuscript that says "Johannes Brahms" on the first page, in Brahms' hand that Spock supposedly recognizes. Spock simply doesn't have a reason to think that the music itself would be a fake.
Or, more exactly, the music is yet another example of those things that Spock finds so puzzling about Flint's castle - a piece of art that should not be a forgery (for the wealthy connoisseur would have no truck with those) but logically must be (as the real things would not be available), despite having all the telltales of a real deal (that is, no counterindications Spock can spot, beyond "this cannot exist").
Timo Saloniemi
Flint 's style and skill would also continue to evolve and not sound like he did 100s of years earlier. That's an ornate piano all around. Harpsichords are smaller.
i have a decent command of the keys, though no concert pianist, but could not sight read that baby flawlessly, in tempo as Spock does. That aspect is still remarkable. "Spock can do anything better than us" trope, almost Mary-Sue-ish.
i have a decent command of the keys, though no concert pianist, but could not sight read that baby flawlessly, in tempo as Spock does. That aspect is still remarkable. "Spock can do anything better than us" trope, almost Mary-Sue-ish.
The point would supposedly be that while Flint evolves, he loves to "slum" with his old personae, becoming Brahms for an afternoon - down to the handwriting, the style, the mannerisms, which would all be different when he instead is Ramses II or Florence Nightingale again. Playing Brahms while doing the music in the style of the modern lookalike Segerstam would probably bring no satisfaction.
As for Spock doing flawless prima vista, how could we tell it's flawless? It could be molto obfuscato pretentionandissimo instead...
Timo Saloniemi
As for Spock doing flawless prima vista, how could we tell it's flawless? It could be molto obfuscato pretentionandissimo instead...
Timo Saloniemi
I'm in the same boat. No way could I sightread that. Even weirder is that Flint assumes without asking that Spock can indeed play it at a glance.
I am a pianist, and I can tell you that there are more technical difficulties in the right hand of what Ivan Ditmars wrote for "Requiem" than might be at first apparent. Measures 5 to 7 (and its various repeats later on) require fast and accurate playing of not just the melody but the notes a fifth or sixth below each melody note, five such pairs of notes in quick succession in each measure. Not at all easy to play cleanly without practice. And the notation required for measures 13 to 20 would certainly include a lot of accidentals, possibly double flats or double sharps (depending on what key it was written in), making for difficult sight-reading.
Why and how Spock would be able to play this without (as far as we know) ever practicing piano is as much a mystery as why Flint would assume that Spock could sight-read the piece - a hand-written manuscript, yet - and not embarrass himself.
On another thread is a discussion about the various pieces played on harpsichord in "The Squire of Gothos," including two from the harpsichord era (Scarlatti sonatas) and one from more than 100 years later that nonetheless sounded charming on harpsichord ("Rosen aus dem Süden," a Strauss waltz). Maybe Uhura knew the Strauss piece already, and Trelane simply helped her to perform it; for Trelane himself to know a Strauss waltz seems contrary to what we know of Trelane's knowledge of what he thinks is present-day Earth culture.
Why and how Spock would be able to play this without (as far as we know) ever practicing piano is as much a mystery as why Flint would assume that Spock could sight-read the piece - a hand-written manuscript, yet - and not embarrass himself.
On another thread is a discussion about the various pieces played on harpsichord in "The Squire of Gothos," including two from the harpsichord era (Scarlatti sonatas) and one from more than 100 years later that nonetheless sounded charming on harpsichord ("Rosen aus dem Süden," a Strauss waltz). Maybe Uhura knew the Strauss piece already, and Trelane simply helped her to perform it; for Trelane himself to know a Strauss waltz seems contrary to what we know of Trelane's knowledge of what he thinks is present-day Earth culture.
Perhaps he was part of an large audience that once saw a younger (teen?) Spock perform a piece by reading it once, but Spock does not know this. And Flint didn't mention it because he felt it wasn't important or relevant.
A quick search turned up a couple of different approaches. In one, the key signature remains the same throughout, but plenty of accidentals (no double flats/double sharps, though):
In the other, it was written as a change of key — from the beginning key of B-flat to D-flat, then to G, and then returning to B-flat*:
Note: measure numbers in the second example don't match the first, as this transcription includes Spock's exploratory notes before Flint invites him to "play the waltz".
* It's been quite a while since I last quick-eyeballed a harmonic analysis, but I think those are the correct keys. In any case, it's so brief (7 bars total) that it's just modulating through them rather than taking up lengthy residence there.
Thanks for those; I looked at both starting with page 1. The second version (with the quick succession of key signatures) has all the notes, whereas the first one leaves out many notes for easier playing. I don't have time to transcribe, but possibly some of those omitted notes would have required double-sharps or double-flats if they weren't omitted.
The version with all the notes isn't easy, either to sight-read or to play un-sloppily. I do find entertaining the idea of Flint attending a recital by Spock although it would have to be on Earth, thus during Spock's Academy years. BUT it's a lot easier to play a recital (or a single piece in a group recital) with the music memorized, and Spock would surely have done so!
When you put it like that, it reminds of the scene in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" -
"Shouldn't you be working on your time warp calculations?"
"I am."
Another possibility is a retcon: just as a telephone in 1968 could not do voice dialing, surf the Net, or show movies, a present day piano can't read your intentions and make your approximate playing come out just right. But Flint's piano may have a setting that Spock could activate that picks up his brain waves and-- even as I'm writing this, I think it's crap.
