Speed of Plot Consternation

[Shawnster]

Maybe it's my less than over-the-moon acceptance of modern Trek, but the way starships get from one location (like Earth) to a far away location (like the edge of Federation space) in just a few minutes or hours is beginning to stick out to me like a sore thumb.

Then I got to thinking about all the other Trek that I've seen, and the number of times this has happened before. I must admit this is not new to current Trek.

What do you think are some of the most egregious "speed of plot" examples in Trek?

JELLICO: Data, I want to be at Minos Korva in one hour.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

This Warp Jump was Time Accurate as to how long it should last.

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I wish they were more consistent with how long it took to get to places, even have a 3D "Google Map" to show their travel.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Into Darkness made it possible for the Enterprise to go from the edge of Klingon space to Earth in only minutes, even with a delicately warp drive. But then only minutes seemed to be the length of time to get anywhere at warp in the Kelvin Timeline, IMO.

Back when I was writing fanfics, however, I strictly adhered to a warp scale and how far a ship could go at various warp factors within a certain time period. I quickly discovered that (naturally) the farther I took my hero ship into space, the longer it took to travel back home, so it eventually became impossible to feature stories within Federation space unless I purposely turned back around or just kept the ship very close or within Federation space anyway. A voyage to save a besieged Federation colony that might take several weeks or even months at high warp might be scientifically more accurate, but it kills the dramatic sense of urgency in a story. So something has to give--either have the ship be ridiculously fast or have most locations always be conveniently close by and only a few hours away at maximum warp.

 

[Orphalesion]

Maybe it's my less than over-the-moon acceptance of modern Trek, but the way starships get from one location (like Earth) to a far away location (like the edge of Federation space) in just a few minutes or hours is beginning to stick out to me like a sore thumb.

Then I got to thinking about all the other Trek that I've seen, and the number of times this has happened before. I must admit this is not new to current Trek.

What do you think are some of the most egregious "speed of plot" examples in Trek?

JELLICO: Data, I want to be at Minos Korva in one hour.

Dude...In DS9 it felt everything from the Klingons to Earth to Cardassia Prime was within spitting distance from the titular station, that was supposedly in the far reaches of Federation Space.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Dude...In DS9 it felt everything from the Klingons to Earth to Cardassia Prime was within spitting distance from the titular station, that was supposedly in the far reaches of Federation Space.

To be fair, Federation space may not be a uniform shape. It may resemble something of a 3D inkblot, with some borders being far closer to Earth than others. DS9 could still be considered at the Federation's frontier only a week out from Earth if the space beyond the station was claimed by another government (like the Cardassians or even the Bajorans). Conversely, there could be another point of undisputed Federation space that could take years to reach...

 

[Orphalesion]

To be fair, Federation space may not be a uniform shape. It may resemble something of a 3D inkblot, with some borders being far closer to Earth than others. DS9 could still be considered at the Federation's frontier only a week out from Earth if the space beyond the station was claimed by another government (like the Cardassians or even the Bajorans). Conversely, there could be another point of undisputed Federation space that could take years to reach...

Still, it seemed like they were everywhere in, at most, a day.

 

[Farscape One]

I will say this... it can be glaring at times.

Take "BROKEN BOW". Qo'nos was only a few days away from Earth at warp 5? That's a little hard to swallow, particularly when you factor in TNG, DS9, and VGR.

While the current era of shows may have used this trope a bit too often for only about 1/6 of the amount of total episodes as the previous eras by comparison, 1966-2005 wasn't guilt free on using this, either.

 

[Rahul]

Back when I was writing fanfics, however, I strictly adhered to a warp scale and how far a ship could go at various warp factors within a certain time period. I quickly discovered that (naturally) the farther I took my hero ship into space, the longer it took to travel back home, so it eventually became impossible to feature stories within Federation space unless I purposely turned back around or just kept the ship very close or within Federation space anyway. A voyage to save a besieged Federation colony that might take several weeks or even months at high warp might be scientifically more accurate, but it kills the dramatic sense of urgency in a story. So something has to give--either have the ship be ridiculously fast or have most locations always be conveniently close by and only a few hours away at maximum warp.

There are some ways around that:
1) In Trek, all "major" races like the humans, Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans are actually "close" to each other relatively - like a space version of Europe, they're somewhat neighbours.
2) ENT took place at first "one step behind" the known borders. In season 3 they went completely far away (and weren't close to earth until the very end), and season 4 took place entirely in the "home" neighborhood
3) On TOS or TNG, episodes usually take place "in outer space" OR in familiar space - implying some longer off-screen time between episodes. Though TNG was usually more in reach to Earth
4) Starfleet ships are likely much faster than all other types of ships (transport, civilian, scientific). Meaning for what "regular" ships need weeks (from the center of the federation to it's corners), Starfleet ships can do much faster. But the border "grows" with the slower speeds. So Starfleet can always be in one moment at the core owners, then next pretty far out near the border

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

To be fair, Federation space may not be a uniform shape. It may resemble something of a 3D inkblot, with some borders being far closer to Earth than others. DS9 could still be considered at the Federation's frontier only a week out from Earth if the space beyond the station was claimed by another government (like the Cardassians or even the Bajorans). Conversely, there could be another point of undisputed Federation space that could take years to reach...

Even if you're not pushing the Warp Engines to their limits by hauling ass at maximum warp and only cruising at Warp 9, it would still be days to cross one side of the UFP borders to the other given how wide UFP territory seems to be along the thin disk section which has a ~100,000 ly Diameter

Spoiler: 2D Galactic Map of the Thin Disk section

 

[C.E. Evans]

Still, it seemed like they were everywhere in, at most, a day.

There have been a couple of episodes, like "Defiant" and "Way of the Warrior" that have suggested it takes about a week to travel from DS9 to Earth.

There are some ways around that:
1) In Trek, all "major" races like the humans, Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans are actually "close" to each other relatively - like a space version of Europe, they're somewhat neighbours.
2) ENT took place at first "one step behind" the known borders. In season 3 they went completely far away (and weren't close to earth until the very end), and season 4 took place entirely in the "home" neighborhood
3) On TOS or TNG, episodes usually take place "in outer space" OR in familiar space - implying some longer off-screen time between episodes. Though TNG was usually more in reach to Earth
4) Starfleet ships are likely much faster than all other types of ships (transport, civilian, scientific). Meaning for what "regular" ships need weeks (from the center of the federation to it's corners), Starfleet ships can do much faster. But the border "grows" with the slower speeds. So Starfleet can always be in one moment at the core owners, then next pretty far out near the border

That's pretty much what I meant by having things be conveniently close by. For dramatic necessity, you really can't have the hero ship spending weeks trying to save the day because it destroys the sense of urgency. Scientific realism, on the other hand, would have the hero ship generally be too far away for many rescues and intercepts.

Even if you're not pushing the Warp Engines to their limits by hauling ass at maximum warp and only cruising at Warp 9, it would still be days to cross one side of the UFP borders to the other given how wide UFP territory seems to be along the thin disk section which has a ~100,000 ly Diameter

Strictly adhering to any warp scale, you'd eventually reach a point where your hero ship would be too late to be of any good for anything beyond its immediate range.

 

[gweeps]

They don't call it warp speed for nothing.

 

[C.E. Evans]

"Ahead, fudge factor nine! No matter how far away it is, we'll get there in time!"

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Strictly adhering to any warp scale, you'd eventually reach a point where your hero ship would be too late to be of any good for anything beyond its immediate range.

That was one of the good things about Spore Drive's massive jump range, you can be nearly anywhere you need to be given it's ludicrous range of ~51,450 ly in one jump going from Alpha to Beta Quadrant if you had a biological navigator.

 

[Christopher]

Examples in the modern movies and shows would take all day to list, so I'll cite the one from DS9 that always bugged me, the end of "Armageddon Game," where Bashir said O'Brien would die if they didn't get him back to DS9 "within the hour," and they somehow managed to achieve that despite being in a different star system altogether, even though runabouts were supposed to have a maximum speed of warp 5.

Even TOS had its examples. Generally interstellar travel was presumed to take a fair amount of time, but in "That Which Survives" you had the Enterprise make a journey of nearly a thousand light years in about 12 hours, which would allow getting from Earth to Alpha Centauri in 3-4 minutes. Though that's nothing compared to ST V, where a trip to the center of the galaxy was stated to take about 8 hours, although it took only 20-odd minutes of screen time with no breaks in the narrative.

 

[Farscape One]

Examples in the modern movies and shows would take all day to list, so I'll cite the one from DS9 that always bugged me, the end of "Armageddon Game," where Bashir said O'Brien would die if they didn't get him back to DS9 "within the hour," and they somehow managed to achieve that despite being in a different star system altogether, even though runabouts were supposed to have a maximum speed of warp 5.

Even TOS had its examples. Generally interstellar travel was presumed to take a fair amount of time, but in "That Which Survives" you had the Enterprise make a journey of nearly a thousand light years in about 12 hours, which would allow getting from Earth to Alpha Centauri in 3-4 minutes. Though that's nothing compared to ST V, where a trip to the center of the galaxy was stated to take about 8 hours, although it took only 20-odd minutes of screen time with no breaks in the narrative.

For "ARMAGEDDON GAME", one can imagine the runabout had a stasis pod that kept him alive until they got back to DS9. While it wasn't in dialogue and it would have been nice to hear it, I always imagined that was the reason.

 

[Christopher]

For "ARMAGEDDON GAME", one can imagine the runabout had a stasis pod that kept him alive until they got back to DS9. While it wasn't in dialogue and it would have been nice to hear it, I always imagined that was the reason.

Then they shouldn't have had Bashir say "Chief O'Brien's going to be dead within the hour if we don't get him back to the station." That pretty much rules out the possibility of a stasis pod. Worse, it's a totally unnecessary deadline, because the runabout immediately comes under threat from the aliens who intend to kill O'Brien and Bashir, so that's all the peril the scene needs.

 

[Nyotarules]

TMP 4 days to Vulcan, ST09 4 minutes to Vulcan. Or did it take Nero four days to drill the hole in the planet and destroy Vulcan's defences?

 

[Farscape One]

Then they shouldn't have had Bashir say "Chief O'Brien's going to be dead within the hour if we don't get him back to the station." That pretty much rules out the possibility of a stasis pod. Worse, it's a totally unnecessary deadline, because the runabout immediately comes under threat from the aliens who intend to kill O'Brien and Bashir, so that's all the peril the scene needs.

True.

I can let it go because it was such a good pairing for them.

 

[Annorax849]

Star Trek V is probably the worst, but I still say one of the worst was the NX-01 going from Earth to Kronos in 4 days. It was especially bad since they literally said that speed could take them to Neptune and back in 6 minutes, meaning Kronos would be 1 Light-Year away (unless you use the Warp Highway argument).

The Neutral Zone to Earth in a few hours in FC and an “outermost colony” to Sol in a few days in BoBW were a stretch, but can be overlooked or explained away in some ways.

I like to think the actual Warp scale is the number to the fifth power and Voyager usually stayed at Warp 4, everything makes more sense that way.

 

[Christopher]

I still say one of the worst was the NX-01 going from Earth to Kronos in 4 days.

For what it's worth (which isn't much), I heard that it was originally scripted as four weeks, but they changed their minds for narrative reasons.