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Space Shuttle Atlantis launches for the final time...

Following up on that, why are we trying to make a re-entry capsule go to the moon or an asteroid? Is there any great reason to haul a heat shield and parachutes a couple million miles through empty space? Conversely, a deep space craft needs radiation shielding, which is just useless mass (and probably lots of mass) during launch, re-entry, or in LEO.

As Rusty Schweickart said in 1969 from the lunar module of Apollo 9, then in independent orbit around Earth and unable to re-enter the atmosphere on its own, "Heat shields are for sissies."

That idea brings things back to Earth orbit rendevous configurations, where the launch/re-entry capsule we develop only goes to LEO. Deep space craft are launched seperately, without a crew (because the crew couldn't abort safely during the launch), and then get manned once they're in orbit. Automated docking is already routine for missions to the ISS, so this is no longer and obstacle, and the ISS could serve as the springboard for the missions (as was originally conceived decades ago).

Next we come to landing/return craft capable of landing on the moon, Mars, Mercury, or a major asteroid like Ceres or Vesta. Since the requirements for such a craft are so radically different than Earth launch and re-entry or deep space operation, it should also be a seperate vehicle, left in orbit around the target body and also designed for re-use.

The point of all this blather (which has been going on in every space forum since the 1960's) is that the capabilities of the craft that gets people up and down to LEO isn't all that important. All of the administration's long term goals could be accomplished even if we used a Soyuz as long as it was supplemented by some sort of heavy lifter to send up the other vehicles. Willey Ley, Von Braun, Korolev, and pretty much every other notable space visionary said the same thing. Even going back to the 50's, the process for becoming a truly space-faring nation was laid out on the cover of magazines like Harpers.

The question is whether we have what it takes politically and managerially to start building the craft we need instead of trying to shoe-horn the craft we're funding into things they aren't good at doing, or defending the limited capabilities of the craft in service as what we should be doing.

Whether you philosophically support NASA, Spaceship One, SpaceX, or the big aerospace firms, don't fall into the trap of thinking that what they have done, can do, or want to do shows the truth of your position, or that rearrangements of program management charts prove progress. These organizations and companies are tools, stepping stones along the path, who need to sell you on the benefits of their products and will confuse you by drawing your focus from the long term onto what their product can deliver in the short term.

For example, how many Shuttle orbits should it have taken to show that the program was just going to go around in circles? From its inception in the mid-70's we were told that this technological wonder would provide us with cheap and convenient access to space, that it would build our future in space, etc. Is six or seven people going around in circles in low orbit for a few weeks a year, for three decades, our future in space? Is that all there is? Is that all it takes to satisfy space buffs?

A generation of children has grown up thinking their future was in space. Somehow they've been content as long as a few geeks and jocks made very occassional and brief multi-billion dollar forays to nowhere, performing missions that none of use can quite recall, but usually something to do with commerical satellites. We focused on the complexities and capabilities of the craft, what it could do, instead of what it couldn't do. What it couldn't do, or rather what we wouldn't do, is insist on faster, farther, further. Space is an unexplored ocean and we were content with a cross-bay ferry slash garbage barge, thinking that made us a space-faring nation. The technological complexity of what we could put in space was substituted for a measure of mastery of space. We operated the sweetest cross-bay ferry ever built or conceived, with a guilt bowsprit and luxurious accomodations. What we didn't do is venture out to explore the vast oceans, because the cross-bay ferry program was too busy achieving important goals to prove the wisdom of maintaining a cross-bay ferry program. The ferry is being retired and replaced, but let us not fall into the same trap of thinking the new ship's capabilities define the mission and the need.
 
Not to disagree with you, but there is one decent reason to bring a heat shield. Aerobraking on return to earth. Either braking all the way to a landing or just braking to achieve LEO. In some cases it probably actually saves weight over using an engine and fuel. But yea, I do agree with you that earth to LEO should be a dedicated vehicle.
 
has anyone else been following the mission on NASA TV?

this channel is absolutely mesmerizing during missions.

right now their showin' highlights from today. very cool stuff.
 
Well, to get back on track with the OP: we took our kids out of school for the day and drove up the interstate so we could get to Titusville and watch the launch.

We were going to get closer to the coast, but traffic was so backed up, we ended up on State Road 50 about 10 miles away.

It was AWESOME!!! :techman: We could even see the boosters through the camera lens! We heard it and sort of felt it about 20-30 seconds after lift-off.

We used to live in Orlando, and we would be able to get a good view of the shuttle launches from our house.:) In fact, when they came back home, the sonic boom would sometimes knock stuff off the walls! But this launch beat all of them!!!! :techman::techman::techman:

My kids were all ooohs and aahhs. It was great!

I am sad that the shuttle program is coming to an end, but I am hopeful that we will continue to explore space( I am after all an optimist and a romantic).:cool:
 
^apology not needed. the spectacular view from the shuttle and the ISS make having a TV worthwhile even if NASA TV was the only channel available.
 
We can't use ANY of it.
Why?

Oh and to get this back on track, here are my pics from last Friday

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^yeah, I remember all that stuff too. sittin' in front of the TV with family and friends, with our eyes wide open in awe of what we were seein'.

damn our government for not gettin' a replacement program in place soon enough. it was bad enough that previous administrations were gonna leave us with a 5 year void in manned spaceflight, and now the current administration killed the Constellation program.

farkin' arseholes. everyone of 'em.

Was it not that last idiot half wit paranoid fuck that ordered the space shuttles retirement, umm, George Bush aka the Muppet master. I bet he didn’t even like space program? He rather have billions spent on blowing people to kingdom come rather than something with positive and more productive in the exploration of space.

I hope the next Shuttle EXT tank lands on his house and obliterates him!
 
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FrontLine

Wow that looks pretty close to the launch pad a bit closer than, is it 3 miles or 5 miles for crowds to watch a launch, just case it, you know after all its fuelled bomb!

Do you work at the Cape because I’d thought they have tight security around the Cape.

What was the sound her like from the moment the main engines fired up and then the SRB and the slow like decent because it looks like she’s travelling slow when she’s really moving faster than drag reaching car, well 100 or more LOL.

What speed is it to escape Earth gravity pull? 7MPH per second, per second? or did I misread a site somewhere?

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

Its "11.2 MPH" per second, per second. It might not seem a lot sure is fast!

The video footage of the launch plays smoother on wikipedia better than lag-tube!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STS-132_launch.ogg
 
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We can't use ANY of it.
Why?

No idea. I never said that.
No you didn't. I screwed up the editing of the quote. Squiggy said it.

Epislon-9, we were at Jetty Maritime Park in Cape Canaveral right next to the cruise ship terminal. It is a public park and we took the Boy and Cub scouts to see the launch. We were just over 13 miles south of 39A and 39B. YOu can get closer. I know that a science fiction writers group were out on the Cocoa Beach Causeway. I think the closest you can get is 3 miles right next to the Vehicle Assembly Building. As for the sound, it didnt hit us until just before SRB separation (around the 2 minute mark). Even from 13 miles away the sound was impressive. Not bone rattling mind you, but you could still feel the reverberations in your bones.

The Delta V launch pads are about 3.5 miles NE from the park. We will be going back for a night launch. It ought to be awesome.

Anyways, thanks for the comments on the pics guys.
 

No idea. I never said that.
No you didn't. I screwed up the editing of the quote. Squiggy said it.

Epislon-9, we were at Jetty Maritime Park in Cape Canaveral right next to the cruise ship terminal. It is a public park and we took the Boy and Cub scouts to see the launch. We were just over 13 miles south of 39A and 39B. YOu can get closer. I know that a science fiction writers group were out on the Cocoa Beach Causeway. I think the closest you can get is 3 miles right next to the Vehicle Assembly Building. As for the sound, it didnt hit us until just before SRB separation (around the 2 minute mark). Even from 13 miles away the sound was impressive. Not bone rattling mind you, but you could still feel the reverberations in your bones.

The Delta V launch pads are about 3.5 miles NE from the park. We will be going back for a night launch. It ought to be awesome.

Anyways, thanks for the comments on the pics guys.

FrontLine

Wow that was cool guess you where in right spot at the right time enough said. I’d like to see one live. I saw the first Shuttle ready to go in April 1981, on holiday at Florida during February I saw the first (only live broadcast of the main engines being fired) this was at Clearwater which is many miles away from Orlando.

Its weird the same footage that was televised is on the IMAX film “Hail Colombia” sounds powerful on the DVD!

If you placed your hands on anything like the top of one of those huts around that bay area you would have felt the shuttle a bit more, the sound wave or like you said the reverberation of her engines raining her roaring mighty dynamic strength of power down on you, oh wow I’d like to hear feel the real thing.

The weather looked good as well as its usually raining cats and dogs or got some ravage hurricane beating the Cape.

Oh, yeah get some night time shots is you’re a camera a digital SLR type, it looks like an SLR from the colour brightness quality. Was it one that has rapped camera action speed photography?

How many more flights now before its retired or did the new president, not extend the flights a bit further past December 2010 until they have "Orion" up and running.
 
^yeah, I remember all that stuff too. sittin' in front of the TV with family and friends, with our eyes wide open in awe of what we were seein'.

damn our government for not gettin' a replacement program in place soon enough. it was bad enough that previous administrations were gonna leave us with a 5 year void in manned spaceflight, and now the current administration killed the Constellation program.

farkin' arseholes. everyone of 'em.

Was it not that last idiot half wit paranoid fuck that ordered the space shuttles retirement, umm, George Bush aka the Muppet master. I bet he didn’t even like space program? He rather have billions spent on blowing people to kingdom come rather than something with positive and more productive in the exploration of space.

I hope the next Shuttle EXT tank lands on his house and obliterates him!


This is probably the most ignorant post I've ever read pn this board. Is there a point to any of it?
 
Oh, yeah get some night time shots is you’re a camera a digital SLR type, it looks like an SLR from the colour brightness quality. Was it one that has rapped camera action speed photography?
It was a Canon Rebel XT with a UV filter using a Sigma 50-300mm lens. I used the UV filter because I lost my polarizer :klingon:

How many more flights now before its retired or did the new president, not extend the flights a bit further past December 2010 until they have "Orion" up and running.
There are two more launches scheduled and I believe they will keep one orbiter on stand by in case of a problem with the ISS.
 
It was a Canon Rebel XT with a UV filter using a Sigma 50-300mm lens. I used the UV filter because I lost my polarizer :klingon:

There are two more launches scheduled and I believe they will keep one orbiter on stand by in case of a problem with the ISS.

The filter to keep the balance between the sheer brightness of the sun!

Oh, right I see you’re clued up on the program more than I.

So Orion is still a go for what ever year it gets the go-ahead for launch. How many years of orbital flight testing, before it commits itself to the moon?
 
So Orion is still a go for what ever year it gets the go-ahead for launch. How many years of orbital flight testing, before it commits itself to the moon?

Why is "orbital flight testing" a term when technically being in orbit and "flying" are mutually exclusive? We don't "fly a rocket" but we flight test it. I think our early space program must've hired too many flight test engineers from Edwards. With all those flight test engineers on the payroll we must've been flight testing something! :shifty:
 
So Orion is still a go for what ever year it gets the go-ahead for launch. How many years of orbital flight testing, before it commits itself to the moon?
No. Orion is on life support. The current administration cut funding to the Ares portion which was good. However they also cut Orion funding as well. So Orion is alive in name only.
 
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