Space Nazis (and Hogan's Heroes)

[Amaris]

Just to add, since the episode was made in the 1960s, I figure that there was still old Nazi propaganda still going around, accepted as fact, until well beyond the series itself.

 

[T'Girl]

Gill: "Most efficient state Earth ever knew."

Actually the idea that Nazi Germany was a super efficient state was just a myth.

There is a difference between being "the most efficient" and being a "super efficient" state. The first would be a comparison to other states in the sample group (Gill used "ever," so that would be all), the second would be state that was absolute in terms of efficiency, which didn't seem to be what Gill was referring to.

Even today there is a general perception that Germans are a intelligent people and possess an efficient culture and system, in comparison more so than their fellow European national neighbors.

Whether that perception is true, is debatable.

 

[Wingsley]

Let's not forget that, only 20 years after the end of the 2nd World War, with the East Germans already part of the Eastern European Communist Bloc, and West Germany our allies, there were still plenty of war veterans around who saw the Nazis as a formidable adversary. I don't know if this qualifies as "grudging respect", but these vets knew the Germans could produce results; they did, after all, conquer most of Europe.

 

[Galileo7]

Also, who could hate Sgt. Schultz? Nobody, that's who.

Nobody. /shakes fist

Agree.

 

[The Overlord]

Gill: "Most efficient state Earth ever knew."

Actually the idea that Nazi Germany was a super efficient state was just a myth.

There is a difference between being "the most efficient" and being a "super efficient" state. The first would be a comparison to other states in the sample group (Gill used "ever," so that would be all), the second would be state that was absolute in terms of efficiency, which didn't seem to be what Gill was referring to.

Even today there is a general perception that Germans are a intelligent people and possess an efficient culture and system, in comparison more so than their fellow European national neighbors.

Whether that perception is true, is debatable.

Except I disagree with the idea that Nazi Germany was that efficient at all. Did they have some very competent working in that state? Sure.

But let's look at Nazi Germany's failures, a lot of Nazi Germany's failures in the USSR came about because Hitler insisted on micromanaging the war effort and making bad decisions. Its hard to argue Nazi Germany was really efficient, when Hitler kept overriding the generals in this staff and undermined their efforts in the eastern campaign.

 

[Christopher]

Well, perhaps Gill's thesis was that the Nazi state would've been efficient if Hitler hadn't been there to screw things up.

That damn Hitler... he ruins everything!

 

[Greg Cox]

It should be noted that making fun of the Nazis and Japanese was quite common during WWII itself (though the "humor" directed toward the Japanese was hideously racist). The Axis powers were often mocked in theatrical cartoons, songs, and movies like Ernst Lubitsch's To Be or Not to Be. Although there were contemporary critics who found it tasteless for Lubitsch's film to make light (so they thought) of the Nazi occupation of Poland. And once the truth about the Holocaust came out, it became harder to joke about the Nazis.

But in time, with some distance, it resumed, since mockery is often the best weapon. Mel Brooks, of course, is Jewish, but that didn't stop him from mocking the Nazis in The Producers, the remake of To Be..., and various other films. And pretty much all the major Nazi characters on Hogan's Heroes were played by Jewish actors (though Werner Klemperer was Jewish by heritage and raised Catholic), while Robert Clary, who played Cpl. LeBeau, was actually a survivor of the Buchenwald concentration camp. I'd say that if he thought it was okay to participate in a comedy about Nazis, the rest of us don't have much business complaining.
.

The Marx Bros. also poked fun at Nazis in A Night in Casablanca.

 

[FormerLurker]

Also, who could hate Sgt. Schultz? Nobody, that's who.

Nobody. /shakes fist

Agree.

Well, Schultz was, after all, the finest toymaker in all of Germany. Klink bought Schultz toys for his grandchildren.

 

[Melakon]

Wow, I was away for a few months and completely missed a Space Nazis thread.

I was watching "Patterns of Force" again just now, and a thought occurred that's never fully pointed out in the episode.

Somehow, Ekosians appear to be able to recognize Zeonites on sight. But neither side has any particularly distinguished features, like hair color. And as far as I can tell, everybody looks like they're all descended from fair-skinned, European stock. Gender actually seems the most visible difference, as the only woman we see in the Party is an undercover resistance agent. If there are any, maybe they're listening during the faked Gill speech. Daras is the only notable woman on the planet.

So it looks like all women may automatically be targeted as Zeon pigs, and used for whatever nefarious purposes that go on in Ekosian "party headquarters".

With males, apparently if you're a guy not wearing a uniform, you're a Zeon pig and you get tortured to death.

 

[NTRPRZ]

Also, who could hate Sgt. Schultz? Nobody, that's who.

Nobody. /shakes fist

Agree.

Well, Schultz was, after all, the finest toymaker in all of Germany. Klink bought Schultz toys for his grandchildren.

Nope. Klink was a confirmed bachelor (and who'd want to marry him anyhow?) so he had no grandchildren.
I'd always liked to have seen a final ep where Hogan and crew save Klink and Schultz from a Gestapo firing squad just as the camp is to be liberated.

 

[FormerLurker]

Claiming Klink was a confirmed bachelor does not negate the fact that in one episode, he told Schultz he bought Schultz toys for his grandchildren.

 

[Christopher]

Well, you don't have to get married to have children (and thus potentially grandchildren).

 

[Push The Button]

Agree.

Well, Schultz was, after all, the finest toymaker in all of Germany. Klink bought Schultz toys for his grandchildren.

Nope. Klink was a confirmed bachelor (and who'd want to marry him anyhow?) so he had no grandchildren.
I'd always liked to have seen a final ep where Hogan and crew save Klink and Schultz from a Gestapo firing squad just as the camp is to be liberated.

Yes, Hogan's Heroes is one series that needed a final episode. We can assume that Klink and Schultz would have survived the war, perhaps with Hogan's help, and gone back to what was left of their prewar lives. I could see Hogan and his guys working in the intelligence community after the war: CIA, MI-6, military intel..there would have been a whole lot of cold war missions ahead of them.