Probably that Morbius, Madame Web and Kraven needed more Tom Hardy.
Sony Spider-Verse discussion thread
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
Probably that Morbius, Madame Web and Kraven needed more Tom Hardy.
Jokes aside, I don't understand why they never tried to make these movies part of a "Venom-Verse" or something.
They made a lot of wrong moves on these films, why not one more?
One might even argue they did try, just in a very minimal and awful way...Morbius has a Venom joke in it.
All the wrong ones, probably.
There’s an interview here with outgoing Sony CEO Tony Vinciquerra, who, to his credit (IMHO) defends the quality of Kraven and Madame Web, rather than throwing the movies and their makers under a bus. Less creditably (also IMHO), he seems to think that their failures are down to a press vendetta and says that they may need to rethink their Spider-spinoffs strategy “ just because it’s snake-bitten. If we put another one out, it’s going to get destroyed, no matter how good or bad it is.” Which rather overlooks the fact that the two animated Spiderverse films got great reviews and did good box office because they were indeed very, very good.
www.latimes.com
Sony Pictures CEO Tony Vinciquerra talks 'arms dealer' strategy, defends 'Spider-Man' spinoffs
As he prepares to leave Sony Pictures, Tony Vinciquerra reflects on his time at the helm of the Culver City film and TV studio and defends "Madame Web" and "Kraven the Hunter." "These are not terrible films."
www.latimes.com
Madame Web has 11% on Rotten Tomatoes. Does he really think there is a colossal conspiracy of critics and audiences against him???
Well, that's what people on the internet say every time something they like gets a bad review. (Hi, Snyder fans!)
Seriously though, it does answer the question of why they kept making these movies in spite of everything.
Same reason WB kept making DC movies without their A-list characters that the general audience would recognize.
These people believe any comic book property would turn in Spider-Man, Batman or Iron Man numbers at the box office. No matter how obscure the character.
What’s troubling about the Spider-Man universe movies, is that not only are the movies separate from the worlds of the 3 Spider-Man actors, but they are also independent of each other.
Nothing is keeping them from happening in the same continuity but in some executive’s big brain logic, this makes sense. Sony said awhile ago that Black Cat and Silver Sable would be in a movie together. A series of diminishing returns has likely put the kibosh on that.
Iron Man was an obscure character to the general public when his first movie came out. The Guardians of the Galaxy were even more obscure when their movie came out. It's getting it backward to say a movie's success depends on the character's prior popularity. Good movies make their characters popular.
The 1990 Captain America feature film was such a dud it wasn't even released theatrically in the US. The 2011 Captain America feature film was such a hit that it spawned an enduring franchise and elevated its lead to superstar status. It's not the character that decides the movie's success. It's the movie that decides the character's success.
I think it's fundamentally telling that he defends Madame Web and Kraven as "not bad films." I didn't see Kraven, but Madame Web is, in fact, a bad film. A terrible one, even. In every phase. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed, even more poorly edited. And it was better than Morbius, which is honestly one of the five worst movies I've ever seen.
It doesn't even really matter WHY he doesn't think that they're bad. Just the failure to recognize terrible movies when they've been made is damning enough. I've said this before, but even Venom isn't exactly a great film. It isn't bad, per se, the way Morbius and Madame Web are. There is some craft on display. But let's be real: Tom Hardy picks that film/franchise up, slings it across his back and carries it like his own personal cross. His performance made the first film what it was, and elevated schlock into very, very watchable and fun schlock.
This just proves what we've long believed. Sony's execs don't get it. They've never gotten it. And there is no indication they are learning from their own missteps.
It doesn't even really matter WHY he doesn't think that they're bad. Just the failure to recognize terrible movies when they've been made is damning enough. I've said this before, but even Venom isn't exactly a great film. It isn't bad, per se, the way Morbius and Madame Web are. There is some craft on display. But let's be real: Tom Hardy picks that film/franchise up, slings it across his back and carries it like his own personal cross. His performance made the first film what it was, and elevated schlock into very, very watchable and fun schlock.
This just proves what we've long believed. Sony's execs don't get it. They've never gotten it. And there is no indication they are learning from their own missteps.
Everything not produced by him.
Yep. Defending your studios' work is honorable, but blaming critics isn't. Just say "Our movies didn't connect with audiences the way we'd hoped, and we'll continue to strive to put out great entertainment while working on our audience engagement." Like it or not, critics are movie experts, and, quite frankly, the last thing society needs these days is more rich-ass executives trashing on experts.
Great question. I'd be curious to know how involved he is in the production of these films. Maybe he watched the dailies every day and gave directions and advice and now he really believes he contributed to creating misunderstood masterpieces
People often talk about how business-oriented Hollywood is, how movies are made to fit the four quadrants, etc. But at the end of the day, there's a human making the decisions, not ChatGPT. And the decisions are a reflection of that human's beliefs.
Iron Man was even praised by Salman Rushdie. Not only was it good, but it was written in a way that it was accessible to people who didn't have any idea about the character. Captain America and Thor didn't do blockbuster numbers, but they made enough that Marvel was able to make more movies with those characters. The MCU was not an instant culture making success, but it was successful enough. The movies built on each other and viewers were rewarded with a quality product so they kept coming back in larger numbers.
I listened to an interview with Lin Manuel Miranda who is a superstar in my house--my kids listen to Hamilton, In the Heights, Moana, and Encanto as part of their everyday playlists. He said that George Lucas went to see Hamilton before they won the Tony and went backstage to congratulate him after the show. (Miranda had been working in NY as a substitute public school teacher prior to Hamilton) and Lucas said, "So, now your problem is success."