Son of Mogh a traitor?

[Figmo]

I submit that Worf's family is without honor.

We have been led to believe that his father was falsely accused of collaborating with the Romulans during the attack at Khitomer.

However I think I have just uncovered evidence, not only indicating his fathers guilt, but Worf's complecency in it.

It has been well-established that the Klingons and Romulans have been mortal enemies for decades. Yet in the episode "The neutral zone" ( The first appearance of Romulans in TNG), Worf tells the captain that the Romulans murdered his parents during the attack "when they were supposed to be our allies"

Now, since we now know that the Romulans we're not allies of the Klingon empire. Who do you think he was referring to when he said "OUR allies"?

Could this have been a Freudian slip? Did he just admit that the Romulans were, in fact, the allies of the house of Mogh? And that it was indeed his father that sent transmission that allowed the massacre?

Perhaps the Duras have been wronged all these years?

 

[Prax]

They're all guilty! Every last one of them. You know what they say: The only good Klingon is a....

Sorry... Freudian slip...I didnt mean it...honest!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think it was just a retcon. No reason to assume any malice on Worf's part.

Also, it seems clear from TOS that the Romulans and Klingons WERE once allies (as evidenced by "The Enterprise Incident" and the Romulans' use of Klingon starship designs). I think it's just that, in TNG's early days, it was unclear exactly how long this alliance lasted.

Remember, the line about "when they were supposed to be our allies" was written well before the possibility of a "Klingon traitor" at Khitomer had even been conceived by the show runners. So as of TNG's first season, it was simply an instance of the Romulans discarding the alliance and attacking on their own, without any involvement by any traitors whatsoever. It wasn't until "Sins of the Father" and later episodes, that it was retconned into Duras' family providing the Romulans with intelligence that allowed them to attack.

Besides, K'Ehleyr - with her dying words - specifically identified Duras as her killer. There would have been no reason for Duras to kill K'Ehleyr except to keep her from revealing the truth (that Duras' family were the real traitors).

 

[Figmo]

Besides, K'Ehleyr - with her dying words - specifically identified Duras as her killer. There would have been no reason for Duras to kill K'Ehleyr except to keep her from revealing the truth (that Duras' family were the real traitors).

Acknowledge she was killed by Duras because she was about to declare that Duras' father was the collaborator.

But Duras could've killed her to keep that lie from being spread. Afterall, she was the mate of the son if Mo'og. Hardly unbiased.

And Certainly, falsely accusing a Klingon's father of treason carries with it the risk of assassination.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ A few things about that:

1) K'Ehleyr was not the kind of person who would willingly spread a lie. (As we saw, she and Worf didn't exactly have the best relationship. If it had been the house of Mogh who was the traitor, K'Ehleyr would have no qualms about getting that word out.)

2) Even if she was, and Duras had been trying to keep her from spreading it, he would simply have challenged her to ritual combat. The reason he just killed her outright was to prevent her from getting the TRUTH out.

3) Every bit of the conversation between K'Ehleyr and Duras (before he killed her) indicates that she was about to expose his family as the traitor. If she was going to perpetuate a lie, Duras' reaction would have been entirely different.

 

[Timo]

Whether playing with Romulans really is a naughty thing for a Klingon is clearly dependent on time and circumstance. Klingons do agree to alliances with aliens every now and then. They simply are quick to anger, and can declare the allies of yesterday the most despicable enemies of today - they do this with the Feds, after all.

An alliance between Klingons and Romulans can be inserted in just about any point in the timeline where the two aren't explicitly at each other's throats. For all we know, there were Klingon-Cardassian and Klingon-Breen alliances in recent history, too - the best proof for that might be the way Klingons declare both those cultures "sneaky" and "honorless" nowadays!

But an alliance between Klingons and Romulans in TOS... I doubt that. In all likelihood, "Romulans operating Klingon ships" is merely audacious theft. And in any case, we get one of those explicitly at each other's throats" moments right after TOS, around 2271 when Kor boasts of having slain Romulans at Klach D'Kel Brakt ("Blood Oath").

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

Klingons & Romulans have been on again off again frenemies so much, who's to say they weren't under a peace treaty at that time? Sure, only a couple years earlier, Romulans attacked Klingons at Narendra III (The ENT-C aiding the Klingons) but maybe the Federation helped barter a short lived peace at that time

But an alliance between Klingons and Romulans in TOS... I doubt that. In all likelihood, "Romulans operating Klingon ships" is merely audacious theft. And in any case, we get one of those explicitly at each other's throats" moments right after TOS, around 2271 when Kor boasts of having slain Romulans at Klach D'Kel Brakt ("Blood Oath").

There had to be some kind of peace stuff happening here & there. Klingons, Romulans & the UFP all had a stake in the peace planet from TFF

 

[MacLeod]

Perhaps the Khitomer attack was the final nail in the coffin for the Klingon-Romulan Alliance. Though perhaps the Romulans hoped that it might cause factions within the KE to shift to one more favourable to them. After all they had people like Ja'rod who supplied them with the codes to deactivae the plametary defenses so what would the relations be like if Ja'rod became chancellor or his son?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think it's a conspiracy by the writers to ignore something they established that didn't fit with their current plans.

 

[velour]

I submit that Worf's family is without honor.

We have been led to believe that his father was falsely accused of collaborating with the Romulans during the attack at Khitomer.

However I think I have just uncovered evidence, not only indicating his fathers guilt, but Worf's complecency in it.

It has been well-established that the Klingons and Romulans have been mortal enemies for decades. Yet in the episode "The neutral zone" ( The first appearance of Romulans in TNG), Worf tells the captain that the Romulans murdered his parents during the attack "when they were supposed to be our allies"

Now, since we now know that the Romulans we're not allies of the Klingon empire. Who do you think he was referring to when he said "OUR allies"?

Could this have been a Freudian slip? Did he just admit that the Romulans were, in fact, the allies of the house of Mogh? And that it was indeed his father that sent transmission that allowed the massacre?

Perhaps the Duras have been wronged all these years?

That is an interesting theory. I do not dismiss it out of hand, although some other corroborating evidence against the Moghs would be helpful.

However, if Duras was considered dishonorable and traitorous, why shouldn't Wolf also be branded as dishonorable and traitorous (from the Klingon perspective, that is)? But for a different event.

In DS9 "The Way of the Warrior", Worf said to Martok, "You forget. I am not only a Klingon warrior. I am also a Starfleet officer."

Before the Klingon invasion force reached the heart of Cardassia, Worf along with Sisko informed Garak of the Klingon's plan. Garak presumably then passed that info to the Cardassian command. That info gave the heads up to the Cardassians and helped them slow down the Klingon invasion and probably cost many Klingon lives. What Worf did, should that be considered traitorous to his Klingon people?

Someone? collaborated at Khitomer; but in this instance we know who Worf collaborated with and it was not in support of his people.

Also, when the Klingons attacked DS9, Worf fought and killed his own people (Klingons). Worf considered the Klingons "his" people . Was Worf dishonorable and traitorous (from the Klingon perspective)? I realize that Kurn paid a price by being kicked out of the high council and other stuff, but Worf himself suffered no long term shame. The empire treated Worf like a prodigal son. They accepted him back into the fold time and time again.

If Duras should forever be branded dishonorable and traitorous for what happened at Khitomer, why shouldn't Worf carry the badge of dishonor and of a traitor for the rest of his life?

 

[Timo]

It would appear rather unlikely that killing Klingons would be frowned upon in the Klingon society!

Klingons have been slaying Klingons since ST3:TSfS, and getting medals, slaps on the back, and extra jugs of warnog for it. So what if Worf takes sides? It's supposed to be the sign of a mature warrior.

Why Ja'rod should be condemned for his treason appears relatively clear-cut: he didn't slay Klingons himself (although some stories do credit him with killing Mogh and then getting killed by his wife), but dishonoraby let in alien scum to do the killing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[velour]

I agree that it is probably unlikely that killing fellow Klingons, per se, would be frowned upon in Klingon society.

But in "The Way of the Warrior", Worf was fighting for and killing fellow Klingons in a time of war and on behalf of an enemy of the empire, namely the Federation.

These weren't just frivolous killings by Worf. I assume that even by Klingon standards, what Worf did at DS9 would be seen as traitorous. But I could be wrong. Klingons are not the most rational species .

In addition to that (and this may be a closer analogy to what might have happened at Khitomer), Worf told Garak about the Klingon invasion plans of Cardassia. Worf's intent was that Garak would pass that info on to the Cardassian command.

This intel was used by the Cardassians to bog down the Klingon's invasion. I presume that the intel that Worf supplied cost many Klingon lives.

Someone may have collaborated with the Romulans at Khitomer. However, we do know that Worf collaborated with the Cardassian(s) at DS9.

It would appear that Worf betrayed "his" people . Kurn paid dearly for the sins of his brother. He ultimately lost his mind thanks to big brother.

Yet Worf was essentially unscathed. For some inexplicable reason, the Klingon oligarchs seemed to have a soft spot for Worf. Ordinary Klingons, I would guess, might spit on the son of Mogh for being a traitor.

 

[Timo]

That Klingons would consider themselves "us" or "the people" might not be all that clear, in view of their mid-TNG civil war which indeed was pretty civil by human standards. More specifically, "hard feelings" didn't appear to linger, which no doubt is a key Klingon trait: matters simply are not left unresolved for any length of time. Houses may have vendettas, but only insofar as they eternally struggle for power. Individuals just get on with it, typically after slaying the opponent or at least having a nice purging fight with him or her.

While this might smoothly explain Worf's repeated bouncing back to favor, we could also speculate the same would have happened to Ja'rod and Duras, given enough time, that is, lack of early death. Klingons aren't fundamentally averse to alliances with aliens or bitter towards enemies in general; treason might be a function of time only, as alliances opportunistically shift.

Timo Saloniemi