Some more questions about Q who/ Best of Both Worlds

[at Quark's]

Yeah, I know, not exactly the least discussed episodes around here, but still

1) What did Guinan actually know about the Borg?

First, she tells us that "They're made up of organic and artificial life which has been developing for thousands of centuries. " This seems (but isn't necessarily) in contradiction with what we learn later about them. Even so, if this is true, how did she learn about this? There aren't many races that are offered a glimpse in the history of the Borg, and they're not exactly from Guinan's neighbourhood, either. Or can we just ascribe this to her "trans-reality" perceptive powers?

Secondly, she strongly advises against Riker visiting the Borg cube. Which is kind of weird, as even though the Borg are aggressive, individual visitors are usually ignored (and she probably would have known that). In the end, it seems to have been a good decision, too (as they learned a lot they didn't know yet). Would Guinan have known about the danger of assimilation? Or did she just know enough to be very, very afraid but not more than that?

(I know, assimilation wasn't even a concept when 'Q who' was made, but I'm just trying to think in-universe).

2) Could Picard have destroyed the cube at the beginning of Q who?

Yeah. I know, at the end of the ep Q says "You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains. They regenerate and keep coming. Eventually you will weaken, your reserves will be gone. They are relentless.", and Federation weapons did prov to be near to useless, and in BOBW as well.

Still, in just a few seconds he blew a few mightily impressive holes in that cube earlier in Q who. That's after the Borg had sent a scout, mulled over the gathered data for 20 minutes or so, and said 'we have analysed your defensive capabilities as being unable to withstand us'. They hadn't adapted to the Ent-D's weaponry yet, seems they just made a general assessment and didn't bother with the details. So, suppose Picard would have gone all-out at that very instant, could he have blown up the cube, or would the Borg still have adapted quicker than he could fire ?

For that matter, suppose Picard had been briefed by Q or Guinan beforehand, and started firing on the cube even before that drone came aboard, would that have made any difference?

3) Would BOBW have worked as well, had Shelby been replaced by a young and very ambitious Lt. Cmdr. Janeway? At the danger of being a serious case of 'small universe syndrome', I could see it setting up a nice rivalry/bond between her and Riker, and give her a background in Borg knowledge at the same time. Would these two characters have played nicely off each other?

 

[JesterFace]

I guess the Enterprise could have blown the cube into little pieces with their first shots, but that's it. After that the Borg could just send another cube that is adapted for Enterprise's weapons... and the end result might have been the same.

 

[Shikarnov]

My suspicion is that -- at the time when the Borg ships were completely decentralized -- the Enterprise might have broken it into tiny pieces and even destroyed some of those pieces, but that the surviving pieces would return to operational status at some point and become a problem. And it would only take one surviving group to adapt and cause enormous damage to the Enterprise (assuming she lurked around to study the "wreckage").

 

[Timo]

ST:Generations shows Guinan and Soran at the same refugee boat. The storyline suggests that the boat herself never came into any contact with the Borg, or else her apparent Federation masters would have made the UFP aware of the cyborgs there and then. And we know Guinan was not on her own homeworld when the Borg came.

Now, both Guinan and Soran know a lot about the Borg. Guinan displays her knowledge before the heroes have it, Soran only afterwards. But it might have been vice versa - Soran or somebody else could have known a lot more about the Borg than Guinan had any practical right to know, and told her on the refugee boat. It's not as if somebody coming to close contact with the Borg would be left in the dark, as the cyborgs are eager to promote their agenda in plain English.

I trust Guinan would also know about assimilation, and indeed she isn't the one insisting that the Borg only care about Picard's technology. Q is, but he no doubt just refers to the fact that Picard as an individual is way too uninteresting to be an assimilation target at that particular junction.

As for blowing up the Cube, the Borg didn't appear to make any credible effort to stop this from happening. So... guile? Why would the Borg fail to fire back if this were possible for them? Why would they show finesse with Picard when brute force is their usual way?

Yet the Borg always allow for a few Drones to die in a firefight when they really don't need to. Allowing half the Cube to be lost might fall in the same category: had Picard demonstrated more fighting power, the Borg would have become more interested, and would have repaired their ship faster and assimilated the E-D toot sweet. As matters stood, the Borg goaded a response from Picard by playing 'possum - not refined guile but a variant of their usual sacrificing game. IMHO.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

The Enterprise's first shot did nothing. The next three did damage. Likely the Borg would have adapted in the next few shots, as they always seem to. As to "We have analyzed your defensive capabilities as being unable to withstand us. If you defend yourselves, you will be punished," they beamed in right through the shields, cut a chunk of the ship out, and then fired weapons which drained the shields and knocked them out of warp. I'd say their claim was 100% accurate.

 

[at Quark's]

Yet the Borg always allow for a few Drones to die in a firefight when they really don't need to. Allowing half the Cube to be lost might fall in the same category: had Picard demonstrated more fighting power, the Borg would have become more interested, and would have repaired their ship faster and assimilated the E-D toot sweet. As matters stood, the Borg goaded a response from Picard by playing 'possum - not refined guile but a variant of their usual sacrificing game. IMHO.
Timo Saloniemi

Problem with that theory (imho) is that their sacrificial game really serves no purpose (as far as I can see) in this scenario. Given the technological prowess of the Borg, they probably already had downloaded and digested the entire Ent-D database (or at least its relevant bits), so that they would have known exactly what the crew would be capable of (and what not), and what they would be inclined to do (and what not). Including full ship's history, exact weapons and other ship's systems specs and pychological profiles of Picard and other crew members (if deemed relevant). So gaining more information than they already have in all likelihood wouldn't be the reason.

The only other reason I can think of for a 'sacrificial game' is that you gain something else that can't be gained or cannot be gained as easily otherwise. But this is a non-factor in situations where there is a huge power difference between two opponents. The world champion in chess doesn't need to sacrifice anything in his game against an average amateur, not even to win quicker. He still might do so because he thinks it is 'fun' or more 'elegant', but certainly not because it is more 'efficient'. Such sacrifices only become useful in that respect if his opponent is within a certain range of his own playing strength.

In this case, it seems the Borg would have been able to thump the ent-D just as easily without 'playing dead' and still gain everything they would have gained by doing what they actually did on-screen.

 

[Timo]

The one thing the Borg could gain by not firing back when Picard paused after his volley would be the one not really evident in the technical data or crew service records: the psychology of the new opponent. Field manuals might speak piously about stopping to evaluate nonviolent options, but would Picard really act that way? Nothing lost by waiting and seeing.

Not that the Borg would believe in the significance of the psychology of an individual. But precisely because of that, they'd want to take stock of the generic human reaction, through studying the individual.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

I suppose if a race was creative/desperate enough and knew they were in Borg's path, they could borrow a page from Riker in BoBW and try to create a façade of their culture and society such that when the Borg made contact with them, anything they gained was fallacious.

Like leading the Borg to believe your entire culture was based on Chicago Mobs, for instance.

Not really sure how well this would work in practice (probably not so well if the Borg were able to assimilate anyone in the know), but it's a more creative stalling tactic I thought of...

 

[Bagofmostlywatr]

Maybe allowing the cube to be damaged by the enterprise was a practical experiment by the borg to see how much damage could be done, and what adaptations were necessary.

 

[JesterFace]

Just like Q, maybe the Borg was just playing games with the Enterprise, just to see what happens.

 

[Mojochi]

Just like Q, maybe the Borg was just playing games with the Enterprise, just to see what happens.

After all, the "resistance is futile" claim doesn't really serve much purpose or hold much water unless it's demonstrated in some way too. They could deliberately allow damage as part of a strategy to facilitate less resistance, once it's clearer that you can' t win